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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Bruce & all,<br>
<br>
let me put in some thoughts.<br>
<br>
First, it is a misconception that the company sucks up developers
or code or whatever. The open source variant, rasdaman community,
is maintained under guidance of Jacobs University. Some share of
the contributions made are coming from projects funded by the
European Commission (eg, EarthServer, see <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.earthserver.eu">www.earthserver.eu</a>),
German Ministry of Research, and European Space Agency. As usual
with OS, this determines direction and pace to some extent.<br>
Also, we see much contribution by the rasdaman GmbH company (check
commit logs!). So contrary to the often heard suspicion that a
company draws OS contribs into their product, quite the contrary
is true here: the company heavily contributes to rasdaman
community progress. Parallel rasdaman, WMS, the whole rasdaman
code as such...wanna hear more examples?<br>
<br>
Bottom line, there is some general, cloudy suspicion in OS world
which IMHO should be verified individually before becoming a
decision basis. We are more than happy to explain & discuss
the detailed situation.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 07/31/2013 07:29 AM, Jody Garnett wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:B7557ABD2821447BA440B3FECB369862@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<div> So I think that means they do not quality for OSGeo
incubation. Part of our driver here is to promote open
development (i.e. to ensure that anyone can take part - it is
not pay-to-play, or in the benevolent dictatorship case
create-to-play). </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Note "play" in the case is about "making significant
strategic decisions" rather than simply "commit".</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Let's differentiate here.<br>
<br>
- Planning is something we would love to do in a more open and
integrative way indeed. We are immensely grateful and indebted for
incubation and Bruce's guidance, we are so much further than we have
been before. It has brought us forward significantly in our
processes, and dealing with planning in a more transparent and open
way certainly is on the agenda. The problem is not that we wouldn't
want it, it's just a step we have to better understand ourselves - a
matter of learning curve on our side.<br>
<br>
- Keeping a last say on some - few - critical issues and decisions
is something that indeed will remain a "benevolent dictatorship". I
have tried more collaborative approaches in the past, and other
projects as well. Our attempt failed miserably, and it took me huge
effort to recover the project from dissolving altogether. Where do
other projects stand here?<br>
* Linux kernel: Linus Torvalds decides about code that goes in.<br>
* Debian: has tried democracy once, with the effect that the
whole project got stuck for a whole year for lack of decision
abilities. <br>
* PostgreSQL: has a quite rigorous approach as well. (We have a
core PG team member on board now.)<br>
...more specific OS project examples on request.<br>
<br>
And, personally, if I see people conducting religious flame wars of
"slash good, ampersand bad" (called REST) I get a nightmare to see
such level of decision making in our project.<br>
<br>
Bottom line, this "benevolent dictatorship" is something we surely
will keep up while listening to all voices and accepting advice in
open discussion. I'd love to see OSGeo accept this, but if this
turns out impossible for OSGeo I understand that you will refuse to
graduate us.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:B7557ABD2821447BA440B3FECB369862@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am not personally against benevolent dictatorship, that is
how JTS (foundation of our industry) operates. It is just not
the ideal we to promote as an organisation.</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
not sure I understand why. OSGeo has set out to do a "quality
branding", and I missed to find a rigorous justification for this
item. Would the Linux project pass incubation?<br>
<br>
That is: I do understand that it is not the ideal. But do all
projects have to conform to one ideal, or is there room for
flexibility and variety? We might not be at the core, but what if we
look at the complete picture?<br>
<br>
Again, I am more than happy to discuss this - admittedly rather
specific - situation in an open way.<br>
<br>
Just some thoughts,<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:B7557ABD2821447BA440B3FECB369862@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>With that in mind, I expect you can read the announcement of
"benevolent dictator" as truth in advertising (which is to
be applauded). Please check with the project if open development
is something they wish to work towards while in incubation, or
if they wish to withdraw from incubation.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If you feel especially worried about this one we can bump it
up to the board to confirm our mandate as incubation committee,
but this looks to fall within our jurisdiction (specifically
your role as mentor).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-- </div>
<div>
<div>Jody Garnett<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<p style="color: #A0A0A8;">On Wednesday, 31 July 2013 at 10:00 AM,
Bruce Bannerman wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
style="border-left-style:solid;border-width:1px;margin-left:0px;padding-left:10px;">
<span>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>Please note the email exchange below.<br>
<br>
I would appreciate some advice from my Incubation
Committee colleagues prior to progressing further
with this issue.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The Rasdaman project has now declared itself to be
"benevolent dictatorship" project.<br>
<br>
I have been concerned for some time over the
amount of decision making control that is held
within the leadership group. This group is closely
related to the Rasdaman GmbH company.<br>
<br>
While the project leadership team are making
positive steps to open up discussions on issues to
the wider community, the decision making process
is far from transparent and is tightly controlled.<br>
<br>
I'm personally not comfortable with this situation
and am seeing a real danger of the project
becoming a free development team for Rasdaman
GmbH, but with the project members having no real
control over the future directions of the project.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>You may also recall my comments in my last
Incubation Report [1] relating to the decision
making process in this project.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Is this a situation that we wish to see within an
OSGeo endorsed project?<br>
<br>
</div>
What are your thoughts on the matter?<br>
<br>
</div>
Bruce<br>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
[1] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/IncCom_Report22">http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/IncCom_Report22</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: <b>Bruce Bannerman</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:B.Bannerman@bom.gov.au">B.Bannerman@bom.gov.au</a>></span><br>
Date: Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 9:49 AM<br>
Subject: FW: [rasdaman-dev] patch quality
[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]<br>
To: Bruce Bannerman <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bruce.bannerman.osgeo@gmail.com">bruce.bannerman.osgeo@gmail.com</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 30/07/13 4:53 PM, "Peter Baumann" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:p.baumann@jacobs-university.de">p.baumann@jacobs-university.de</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
>Bruce,<br>
><br>
>as below:<br>
><br>
>On 07/30/2013 02:53 AM, Bruce Bannerman
wrote:<br>
>> Peter,<br>
>><br>
>> Out of interest:<br>
>><br>
>> What process are we using to review and
accept contributed patches?<br>
><br>
>the patch manager page accepts submissions,
which are reviewed by<br>
>committers<br>
>internally. Everyone can commit, upon doubts
we discuss. Accepted or<br>
>rejected,<br>
>submitters get notified.<br>
><br>
>><br>
>> Who undertakes this work?<br>
><br>
>committers currently are:<br>
>Peter Baumann<br>
>Dimitar Misev<br>
>Stephan Meissl<br>
><br>
>><br>
>> Do we have a formal group of
'committers' to undertake this task?<br>
><br>
>the above ones who get active depending on
availability (we have a quite<br>
>high<br>
>submission frequency).<br>
><br>
>><br>
>> How do community members become
committers? What process is used?<br>
><br>
>as Piero mentioned recently: we have the
"benevolent dictatorship"<br>
>variant in place.<br>
>open and free discussion, and everybody for
sure is heard, but I reserve<br>
>the<br>
>right for an ultimate decision.<br>
><br>
>-Peter<br>
><br>
><br>
>><br>
>> Bruce<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 29/07/13 5:24 PM, "Peter Baumann"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:p.baumann@jacobs-university.de">p.baumann@jacobs-university.de</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> Dear contributors,<br>
>>><br>
>>> continuously you are greatly
enhancing rasdaman. Please take care of<br>
>>>the<br>
>>> advice<br>
>>> given on the patch submission page,
in particular the code guide.<br>
>>> Frequent issues which may lead to
rejection of a patch:<br>
>>> - no test provided for the
fix/enhancement<br>
>>> - code guide violated, most
commonly: formatting, use of variables<br>
>>> - fix addresses local problem
reported, but obviously leaves open the<br>
>>> "hole" for<br>
>>> other, similar situations<br>
>>><br>
>>> In particular fixes submitted
against master must adhere to our<br>
>>> guidelines.<br>
>>><br>
>>> thanks for caring, and keep on
doing good things,<br>
>>> Peter<br>
>>><br>
>>> PS: an announcement: having Susanne
on board now (she comes from the<br>
>>> PostgreSQL<br>
>>> and MySQL communities) we are
getting further insights into OS code<br>
>>> management.<br>
>>> Stay tuned, she has spotted our
petascope error handling!<br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> Dr. Peter Baumann<br>
>>> - Professor of Computer Science,
Jacobs University Bremen<br>
>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann"
target="_blank">www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann</a><br>
>>> mail: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:p.baumann@jacobs-university.de">p.baumann@jacobs-university.de</a><br>
>>> tel: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B49-421-200-3178"
value="+494212003178">+49-421-200-3178</a>,
fax: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B49-421-200-493178"
value="+49421200493178">+49-421-200-493178</a><br>
>>> - Executive Director, rasdaman
GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)<br>
>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.rasdaman.com" target="_blank">www.rasdaman.com</a>,
mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:baumann@rasdaman.com">baumann@rasdaman.com</a><br>
>>> tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax:
0800-rasdafax, mobile: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B49-173-5837882"
value="+491735837882">+49-173-5837882</a><br>
>>> "Si forte in alienas manus
oberraverit hec peregrina epistola incertis<br>
>>> ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata,
precamur ut ei reddatur cui soli<br>
>>> destinata, nec preripiat quisquam
non sibi parata." (mail disclaimer,<br>
>>>AD<br>
>>> 1083)<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> You received this message because
you are subscribed to the Google<br>
>>>Groups<br>
>>> "rasdaman-dev" group.<br>
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and
stop receiving emails from it, send<br>
>>>an<br>
>>> email to <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rasdaman-dev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com">rasdaman-dev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
>>> To post to this group, send email
to <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rasdaman-dev@googlegroups.com">rasdaman-dev@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
>>> Visit this group at <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://groups.google.com/group/rasdaman-dev"
target="_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/rasdaman-dev</a>.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
><br>
>--<br>
>Dr. Peter Baumann<br>
> - Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs
University Bremen<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann"
target="_blank">www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann</a><br>
> mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:p.baumann@jacobs-university.de">p.baumann@jacobs-university.de</a><br>
> tel: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B49-421-200-3178"
value="+494212003178">+49-421-200-3178</a>,
fax: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B49-421-200-493178"
value="+49421200493178">+49-421-200-493178</a><br>
> - Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen
(HRB 26793)<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.rasdaman.com" target="_blank">www.rasdaman.com</a>,
mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:baumann@rasdaman.com">baumann@rasdaman.com</a><br>
> tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax,
mobile: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B49-173-5837882"
value="+491735837882">+49-173-5837882</a><br>
>"Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec
peregrina epistola incertis<br>
>ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur
ut ei reddatur cui soli<br>
>destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi
parata." (mail disclaimer, AD<br>
>1083)<br>
><br>
><br>
>--<br>
>You received this message because you are
subscribed to the Google Groups<br>
>"rasdaman-dev" group.<br>
>To unsubscribe from this group and stop
receiving emails from it, send an<br>
>email to <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rasdaman-dev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com">rasdaman-dev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
>To post to this group, send email to <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rasdaman-dev@googlegroups.com">rasdaman-dev@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
>Visit this group at <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://groups.google.com/group/rasdaman-dev"
target="_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/rasdaman-dev</a>.<br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>_______________________________________________</div>
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</span> </blockquote>
<div> <br>
</div>
<br>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Incubator mailing list
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="80">--
Dr. Peter Baumann
- Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann">www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann</a>
mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:p.baumann@jacobs-university.de">p.baumann@jacobs-university.de</a>
tel: +49-421-200-3178, fax: +49-421-200-493178
- Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.rasdaman.com">www.rasdaman.com</a>, mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:baumann@rasdaman.com">baumann@rasdaman.com</a>
tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: +49-173-5837882
"Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola incertis ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei reddatur cui soli destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi parata." (mail disclaimer, AD 1083)
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