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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 23/01/2015 4:33 am, Peter Baumann
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:54C1347B.1060408@jacobs-university.de"
type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
Cameron-<br>
<br>
coming back on this, after some delay unfortunately.<br>
Responses inline:<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/31/2014 08:57 PM, Cameron
Shorter wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:5453E9BD.7030301@gmail.com" type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
Thanks for the responses Peter, and offering to put the final
touches on your incubation report. Comments in line.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/11/2014 2:07 am, Peter Baumann
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:5453A5B7.2040906@jacobs-university.de"
type="cite"> Hi Cameron,<br>
<br>
see inline for the individual responses:<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/18/2014 11:30 PM, Cameron
Shorter wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:5442DC05.2030104@gmail.com" type="cite">
Hi Peter and Bruce,<br>
I've reviewed the incubation documentation provided, and
provided a few spot reviews of the referenced documentation.<br>
Overall, I think the documentation is in good shape, but
missing explanations, particularly around licenses and
testing.<br>
<br>
<br>
Below are a few things that I'd like to see looked into
before final sign off:<br>
<br>
Looking at: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://rasdaman.org/wiki/OSGeoIncubationChecklist">http://rasdaman.org/wiki/OSGeoIncubationChecklist</a>
which provides the summary about how the project is ready to
complete graduation.<br>
<br>
* For each statement that you are addressing, please add a
brief sentence explaining HOW you are addressing the
statement, possibly also with an OPINION.<br>
For instance, currently for: "Open communication channels",
you have "see MailingLists".<br>
In reviewing, I can see that a mailing list has been set up.
In looking at the list, I see users are asked questions on
the user list and there are answers. I can see that
auto-patch messages are being pumped into the developers
list. In my quick scan, I can't see discussions between
developers about a new feature, and discussions about a
design idea. So I'd suggest describing how communication is
happening. Maybe:<br>
"See MailingLists <URL>. User questions are typically
addressed on the user email list. Development is currently
mostly happening at Jacobs University, and discussions about
development typically happen in person, and the results of
such conversations are summarised onto the developer email
list (or ...)."<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
OK, we will try adding something I have never seen such a
thing on any of the graduation reports, and neither is this
required by the questionnaire.<br>
Hence, can you help us by providing an example project showing
what OSGeo expects?<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I've just had a look at <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GeoTools_Project_Status">http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GeoTools_Project_Status</a><br>
In some places the added description is light. Eg description
about how email lists is used is brief. However, if I follow the
link to the list it is obvious how well the lists are being
used.<br>
<br>
A good example for you to follow re comments from the GeoTools
doc is:<br>
<br>
<dt style="font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 0.1em; color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: 19.0499992370605px; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255);">How many active developers are there? Are they
from multiple organizations?</dt>
<dd style="line-height: 19.0499992370605px; margin-left: 2em;
margin-bottom: 0.1em; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans:
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255);">There are around 10 developers working on geotools
as part of their day job, the expanded list goes up to around
30 with commit access. The important part is the number of
responsible module maintainers. While the project is made up
of individuals (who happen to work for organizations such as
Penn State University, Refractions Research, The Open Planning
Project, IBM, Oracle, Google others...)</dd>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
see answer to next post, following your recommendation there.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Peter,<br>
You have not addressed my comment.<br>
To be clear, EVERY incubation checkpoint needs to be addressed, by
providing a DESCRIPTIVE answer explaining HOW the requirement is
addressed, along with applicable REFERENCE(S) to supporting
evidence.<br>
<br>
At the moment, almost all points on your checklist only provide a
REFERENCE, and don't provide a DESCRIPTION.<br>
<br>
To avoid misunderstanding, you should be updating almost ALL points,
not just the points I've expanded upon below.<br>
<br>
Until the Rasdaman community addresses this, I'd consider the
incubation process incomplete.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:54C1347B.1060408@jacobs-university.de"
type="cite"> <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5453E9BD.7030301@gmail.com" type="cite"> <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5453A5B7.2040906@jacobs-university.de"
type="cite"> <br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5442DC05.2030104@gmail.com" type="cite">
<br>
* For "Open Source License": I'd be hoping to see a
statement about the dual license, including a comment about
the enterprise license. I'm ok with the dual license concept
which I think fits with OSGeo principles. Further, from the
material and links provided, it seems plausible that the GPL
license terms are broken by LGPL and enterprise licensed
products being distributed.<br>
I feel there needs to be an explanation of the enterprise
license, and then about how LGPL products and enterprise
products don't need to be GPL (because they don't link in
any GPL libraries?).<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Available - there is even a dedicated page on this, just
follow the link:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://rasdaman.org/wiki/License">http://rasdaman.org/wiki/License</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
The above link references enterprise features, but doesn't
reference an enterprise license. If you are referencing
"enterprise rasdaman" I would expect to be able to find a read
the enterprise license.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
here it is, on said page:<br>
<ul>
<li>A <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="ext-link"
href="http://www.rasdaman.com"><span class="icon"></span>commercially
supported, non-GPL-restricted variant of rasdaman</a> is
available which we recommend to all users who have
requirements that go beyond GPL. </li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
Peter, <br>
The above link points to <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.rasdaman.com/">http://www.rasdaman.com/</a> which doesn't
contain license text.<br>
Did you not understand the question? I was suggesting that the
license page should reference the commercial license, which might
look something like: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.adobe.com/legal/general-terms.html">http://www.adobe.com/legal/general-terms.html</a><br>
<br>
If you don't have such license text available, you could say "for
more details about the commercial version, contact <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:aaa@bbb.com">aaa@bbb.com</a>".<br>
Note: This is a suggestion which I think should be in place for a
professional product, but as it doesn't apply to the open source
version of Rasdaman, I would accept an argument that this statement
is not applicable to OSGeo incubation.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:54C1347B.1060408@jacobs-university.de"
type="cite">
<ul>
</ul>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5453E9BD.7030301@gmail.com" type="cite">
<blockquote cite="mid:5453A5B7.2040906@jacobs-university.de"
type="cite"> <br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5442DC05.2030104@gmail.com" type="cite">
<br>
* "<i>Long term viability</i>": <br>
Sentence needed here discussing roughly how many
contributors you have, (as well as existing reference to
patchmanager).<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Patchmanager is the source for the information on this, just
choose "all" to see all contributors.<br>
Hm, not sure what else would need to be added.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I suggest adding a statement like this:<br>
<br>
<i>There are around 10 developers working on geotools as part of
their day job, the expanded list goes up to around 30 with
commit access. The important part is the number of responsible
module maintainers. While the project is made up of
individuals (who happen to work for organizations such as Penn
State University, Refractions Research, The Open Planning
Project, IBM, Oracle, Google others...)</i><br>
<br>
and add<br>
<i>for further details, refer to matchmanager, and select all.</i><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Part 1 is varying and cannot be maintained upto date;<br>
as for part 2, this exists already: <br>
see contributors in <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="ext-link" href="http://rasdaman.org/patchmanager"><span
class="icon"></span>http://rasdaman.org/patchmanager</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Peter, it seems you haven't made any changes to address my comment?<br>
I can't see text like that I suggested above.<br>
You are not describing how you meet a graduation criteria. You need
to help a reviewer understand how to interpret patchmaker by
summarising the results in a statement.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:54C1347B.1060408@jacobs-university.de"
type="cite"> <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5453E9BD.7030301@gmail.com" type="cite">
<blockquote cite="mid:5453A5B7.2040906@jacobs-university.de"
type="cite"> <br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5442DC05.2030104@gmail.com" type="cite">
<br>
* <i>Project documentation is available under an open
license, as documented here: Legal</i>: <br>
The referenced "Legal" link doesn't talk about
Documentation. Please reference correct documentation
license link.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
oops, that should read "License" - fixed now. Good catch!<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
Thanks, looks good now.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:54C1347B.1060408@jacobs-university.de"
type="cite">
<blockquote cite="mid:5453E9BD.7030301@gmail.com" type="cite">
<blockquote cite="mid:5453A5B7.2040906@jacobs-university.de"
type="cite"> <br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5442DC05.2030104@gmail.com" type="cite">
<br>
* <i><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://rasdaman.org/wiki/Legal">http://rasdaman.org/wiki/Legal</a></i>
: <br>
Remove references to "... blah-blah ..."<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
why? ;-) cannot see much relevance for incubation as long as
even industry does not complain. But we are getting lost in
details, admittedly.<br>
</blockquote>
I assume you are making a joke, but in case you are not, I'll
explain.<br>
<br>
The line which references "blah-blah" looks like it comes from a
template and hence should be removed in a final document. And in
particular, professional organisations (which is one of the user
groups that OSGeo targets), expects to have professional level
legal documentation which doesn't reference "blah-blah".<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
sure, corrected now :)<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
thanks.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:54C1347B.1060408@jacobs-university.de"
type="cite"> <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5453E9BD.7030301@gmail.com" type="cite"> <br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5453A5B7.2040906@jacobs-university.de"
type="cite"> <br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5442DC05.2030104@gmail.com" type="cite">
<br>
* " <i>Which includes execution of the testing process
before releasing a stable release: <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://212.201.49.21:35000/">http://212.201.49.21:35000/</a>"</i>
:<br>
Link requires user log in. A sentence explaining testing
will help here.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
Still not actioned. I'm looking for a sentence explaining how the
testing process works.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:54C1347B.1060408@jacobs-university.de"
type="cite">
<blockquote cite="mid:5453E9BD.7030301@gmail.com" type="cite">
<blockquote cite="mid:5453A5B7.2040906@jacobs-university.de"
type="cite">
<blockquote cite="mid:5442DC05.2030104@gmail.com" type="cite">
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5442DC05.2030104@gmail.com" type="cite">
<br>
* "<i>All patches submitted to the repository undergo review
before being applied to the code base: <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.rasdaman.org/patchmanager">http://www.rasdaman.org/patchmanager</a></i>"
: <br>
This doesn't confirm that patches are reviewed (by a
person), only that you use patchmanager.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
ok, added "human".<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Checked <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://rasdaman.org/wiki/OSGeoIncubationChecklist">http://rasdaman.org/wiki/OSGeoIncubationChecklist</a>,
I can't see a reference to a process which includes reviewing
patches before they are applied.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
see Governance:<br>
Patches are accepted by members of the PSC who all have commit
rights.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Ok, good. Only problem is that person reading the checklist:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://rasdaman.org/wiki/OSGeoIncubationChecklist">http://rasdaman.org/wiki/OSGeoIncubationChecklist</a> can't find it. For
each question, including this, you need a sentence stating how you
address the question, quoting text to your procedures, and providing
a cross reference, in this case I'd quote the words above, and
provide a link to the Governance document.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:54C1347B.1060408@jacobs-university.de"
type="cite"> <br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5453E9BD.7030301@gmail.com" type="cite">
<blockquote cite="mid:5453A5B7.2040906@jacobs-university.de"
type="cite"> <br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5442DC05.2030104@gmail.com" type="cite">
<br>
* "<i>Systemtests are to be run by developers before
submitting patches: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.rasdaman.org/wiki/CodeGuide">http://www.rasdaman.org/wiki/CodeGuide</a></i>"
: <br>
This code guide is good, but on my first pass, I can't see
any reference to testing processes. How do you verify that
all code is tested? Ideally reference continual integration
or similar.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
We verify automatically by running a test against each patch;
the outcome is documented next to each patch once the test run
has finished. This is quite a new feature, though, and - as
you have spotted - not all is in place yet. <br>
The page is: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.rasdaman.org/wiki/RasdamanTestSuites">http://www.rasdaman.org/wiki/RasdamanTestSuites</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
OK, this test wiki you reference is a good start, but I notice
it is still in draft state, with "TBD" and "TODO" text in it.<br>
<br>
This would need to be complete before I'd consider rasdaman is
ready to complete incubation.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Hm, are really all graduated projects without any TBDs etc? I
found TBDs on osgeo.org, and 455 TODOs on PostGIS. How would you
think about that in comparison?<br>
<br>
Work anyway will progress in due course and depending on project
situation, it's in our own vest interest.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Some TBDs are more important than others.<br>
OSGeo is a stamp of quality, and a core component of quality is to
have established testing.<br>
As an incubation committee member, I'd vote -1 on incubating a
project that has TBDs in their quality processes.<br>
I suggest addressing this.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:54C1347B.1060408@jacobs-university.de"
type="cite"> <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5453E9BD.7030301@gmail.com" type="cite"> <br>
I suggest that this test wiki should also be referenced from: <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.rasdaman.org/wiki/CodeGuide">http://www.rasdaman.org/wiki/CodeGuide</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Cameron, somehow I feel we are getting into micro management. If
we look at incubated projects we find a range of different
situations, and we do not even speak about regular checking
whether incubation quality is maintained. <br>
While I am open for hints on improvement I am not sure that such
finetuning has to do with the original goals of incubation. <br>
<br>
So let's see where we stand in year 5 since rasdaman's incubation
request :)<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Peter,<br>
The review I've provided for you is comparable to reviews I've
provided to most of the other OSGeo incubated projects. For all
these projects, the project owners quickly addressed the comments,
and soon after, they were incubated.<br>
<br>
I suggest you don't imply blame for Rasderman's lack of incubation.
You might not like who gets implicated.<br>
<br>
Yes, incubation is hard. People recognise the effort and level of
quality required to pass OSGeo-Incubation. It is why these projects
are favoured when organisations are selecting software.<br>
<br>
Rasdaman is close to addressing all incubation criteria. Lets see if
we can get it across the line.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:54C1347B.1060408@jacobs-university.de"
type="cite"> <br>
cheers,<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5453E9BD.7030301@gmail.com" type="cite"> <br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5453A5B7.2040906@jacobs-university.de"
type="cite">
<blockquote cite="mid:5442DC05.2030104@gmail.com" type="cite">
<br>
* Link to <i><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://rasdaman.org/browser/systemtest">http://rasdaman.org/browser/systemtest</a></i>
is broken. I'm looking for evidence of testing processes,
including unit testing, continuous integration, and a system
testing plan which is executed. <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
sorry for the broken link, fixed that: <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.rasdaman.org/wiki/RasdamanTestSuites">http://www.rasdaman.org/wiki/RasdamanTestSuites</a><br>
</blockquote>
thanks<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5453A5B7.2040906@jacobs-university.de"
type="cite"> <br>
HTH,<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5442DC05.2030104@gmail.com" type="cite">
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 16/10/2014 4:25 pm, Bruce
Bannerman wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAG=9HVK2TiRYc4Sa_c+Ka_7ZqAM9fhP8mC4Z_RpGg4D+YKp4uw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
Project: Rasdaman <br>
<br>
</div>
Project Contact: Peter Baumann<br>
<br>
Project Mentor: Bruce Bannerman<br>
<br>
<br>
Recommendation: Rasdaman to Graduate from OSGeo
Incubation<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>Incubation Checklist: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://rasdaman.org/wiki/OSGeoIncubationChecklist"
target="_blank">http://rasdaman.org/wiki/OSGeoIncubationChecklist</a>
<div
style="width:16px;height:16px;display:inline-block"> </div>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
</div>
Comments:<br>
<br>
I have been monitoring and participating in the Rasdaman
Community developer and user email lists for over four
years. I plan to continue to participate within the
community.<br>
<br>
It has been pleasing to see how the community has
evolved over this time to develop effective, open and
robust processes. <br>
<br>
I recommend to other FOSS4G communities to review what
has been done, as you may well find that Rasdaman offers
a compelling solution for the management of
multi-dimensional array or gridded data that your
project may be able to capitalise on.<br>
<br>
<div>A summary of community activity may be found at: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.openhub.net/p/rasdaman"
target="_blank">https://www.openhub.net/p/rasdaman</a>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Key project members are active within both OSGeo and the
OGC.<br>
<br>
Within the OGC they have successfully guided a range of
standards to support mutltidimensional array (gridded)
data which have culminated (currently) in Web Coverage
Service version 2.0 and a suite of extensions, see: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.opengeospatial.org/standards/wcs"
target="_blank">http://www.opengeospatial.org/standards/wcs</a><br>
<br>
The project's principal, Professor Peter Baumann was
also recently awarded OGC's prestigious Kenneth D
Gardels award for his contributions to OGC.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>After having participated within the community for
four years and having reviewed their OSGeo Project
Graduation Checklist, I believe that Rasdaman
Community have fulfilled the requirements of OSGeo
Incubation and are eligible to graduate as an OSGeo
Project.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
</div>
The only reservation that I have is over the dual
licensing model that is used by the sponsoring company,
Rasdaman GmbH. See: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.rasdaman.com/Product/commercial+free.php"
target="_blank">http://www.rasdaman.com/Product/commercial+free.php</a>
<div style="width:16px;height:16px;display:inline-block"> </div>
<br>
<br>
There are two versions: Community (GPL and LGPL) and
Enterprise (free from GPL constraints).<br>
<br>
The main difference between the two versions is
summarised at: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.rasdaman.org/wiki/Features"
target="_blank">http://www.rasdaman.org/wiki/Features</a>
<div style="width:16px;height:16px;display:inline-block"> </div>
<br>
<br>
This dual licensing may create a problem for the
Rasdaman Community in the future should Rasdaman GmbH
decide to sell its stake in the Rasdaman Enterprise
version of the software. We have already seen a similar
situation arise after the sale of MySQL which was
similarly licensed. <br>
<br>
However as the community edition of the software is
released under open source licenses, I expect that the
main impact would be to the continuity of the Rasdaman
Community in its current form. In the event of a sale,
we may see the software forked, as happened with MySQL.<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For consideration and vote.
<div class="">
<div id=":t3" class="" tabindex="0"><img
moz-do-not-send="true" class=""
src="https://ssl.gstatic.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/images/cleardot.gif"></div>
</div>
<span class=""><font color="#888888"><br>
</font></span></div>
<span class=""><font color="#888888">
<div>Bruce<br>
</div>
</font></span></div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Incubator mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Incubator@lists.osgeo.org">Incubator@lists.osgeo.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Cameron Shorter,
Software and Data Solutions Manager
LISAsoft
Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
P +61 2 9009 5000, W <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.lisasoft.com">www.lisasoft.com</a>, F +61 2 9009 5099</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="80">--
Dr. Peter Baumann
- Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann">www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann</a>
mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:p.baumann@jacobs-university.de">p.baumann@jacobs-university.de</a>
tel: +49-421-200-3178, fax: +49-421-200-493178
- Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.rasdaman.com">www.rasdaman.com</a>, mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:baumann@rasdaman.com">baumann@rasdaman.com</a>
tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: +49-173-5837882
"Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola incertis ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei reddatur cui soli destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi parata." (mail disclaimer, AD 1083)
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Cameron Shorter,
Software and Data Solutions Manager
LISAsoft
Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
P +61 2 9009 5000, W <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.lisasoft.com">www.lisasoft.com</a>, F +61 2 9009 5099</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="80">--
Dr. Peter Baumann
- Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann">www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann</a>
mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:p.baumann@jacobs-university.de">p.baumann@jacobs-university.de</a>
tel: +49-421-200-3178, fax: +49-421-200-493178
- Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.rasdaman.com">www.rasdaman.com</a>, mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:baumann@rasdaman.com">baumann@rasdaman.com</a>
tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: +49-173-5837882
"Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola incertis ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei reddatur cui soli destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi parata." (mail disclaimer, AD 1083)
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Cameron Shorter,
Software and Data Solutions Manager
LISAsoft
Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
P +61 2 9009 5000, W <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.lisasoft.com">www.lisasoft.com</a>, F +61 2 9009 5099</pre>
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