<div dir="ltr">An open process is very important - for exactly the reasons specified.<div><br></div><div>I expect a balance can be arranged, there is a difference between resourcing staff, project management and decision making after all.<div><br></div><div>We should also be clear we are talking about strategic project direction decisions here, not day to day resourcing on who works with what. </div><div><br></div><div>As an example GeoServer maintains a change control procedure (open), Skype meetings a couple times a month (open for anyone to attend and the minuets sent to the mailing list). These are all about the project and communication.</div><div><br></div><div>Boundless (for example) may have several agile teams working on RnD or for our customers. When one of these teams ends up working on an open source project the proposals/procedures/meetings show up as activities for the project manager to resource for however many sprints are required.</div><div><br></div><div>Other organizations working on GeoServer may be contract driven, and I trust those contracts include line items for the public communication required to get the job done (and the docs and QA needed for a feature to be included in the project). Indeed we introduced "proposals" in part to get a sanity check and reduce the risk for those working on short term contracts.</div><div><br></div><div>Jody<div><br></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>--</div><div>Jody Garnett</div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 10 September 2015 at 07:44, Even Rouault <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:even.rouault@spatialys.com" target="_blank">even.rouault@spatialys.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class="">><br>
> Also, having staff perform the day to day management of the project<br>
> through face to face discussion may be more efficient (I have no<br>
> doubts), but that doesn't directly meet the "Open decision making<br>
> process" expectations that we have put on all other projects so far, so<br>
> the Incubation committee will have to decide on how we deal with that.<br>
> Do we treat gvSIG as an exception, or decide that open decision process<br>
> is no longer a requirement? And if we remove that requirement then how<br>
> do we distinguish between a private company just pushing its source code<br>
> to the public and a project managed the way gvSIG is managed?<br>
><br>
> The reason for the open decision making process is to make it easier for<br>
> new external contributors to join the day to day management of the<br>
> project and by the same way increase the project long term viability by<br>
> preventing the dependence on staff from a single organization.<br>
><br>
> For instance, several years ago I was the mentor for the MapGuide and<br>
> later on the FDO projects and we worked hard with them to move the<br>
> decision making from face to face discussions inside Autodesk offices to<br>
> the respective project mailing lists in order to open up to the community.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Sorry for the long email. I'd like to hear what other IncCom members think.<br>
<br>
</span>Not an IncCom member, but just adding my 2 cents.<br>
<br>
I really think that the open decision making process is an important, and<br>
valuable, characteristics of OSGeo projects. Beyond the fundamental reason<br>
given by Daniel (making it as easy as possible for outsiders to join), I also<br>
think that having written decisions is important for a long existing project.<br>
Sometimes you look back in the past and wonder "why is that thing the way it<br>
is today?" and having traces of what was decided 5 years ago or more can be<br>
valuable. Writing things generally lead to better quality proposals since you<br>
need to better structure your thoughts. Of course all this apply to changes<br>
that have major or architectural impacts. Day to day smaller changes can be<br>
dealt more informally.<br>
<br>
A few examples of open decision making :<br>
<a href="http://mapserver.org/development/rfc/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mapserver.org/development/rfc/</a><br>
<a href="https://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/wiki/RfcList" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/wiki/RfcList</a><br>
<a href="https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/wiki/Proposals" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/wiki/Proposals</a><br>
<br>
Even<br>
<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
><br>
> Daniel<br>
><br>
> On 2015-09-10 6:20 AM, Alvaro Anguix wrote:<br>
> > Hi Daniel,<br>
> ><br>
> > El 10/09/15 a las 04:12, Daniel Morissette escribió:<br>
> >> Dear All,<br>
> >><br>
> >> I started looking into the gvSIG incubation checklist at<br>
> >> <a href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GvSIG_Incubation_Checklist" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GvSIG_Incubation_Checklist</a> and am having a<br>
> >> hard time tracking down info about the Technical Steering Committee.<br>
> >><br>
> >> The checklist points to<br>
> >> <a href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GvSIG_Technical_Steering_Committee" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GvSIG_Technical_Steering_Committee</a> which in<br>
> >> turn points to two broken links for the<br>
> >> [<a href="https://gvsig.org/web/working-groups/organizacion" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://gvsig.org/web/working-groups/organizacion</a> gvSIG TSC front<br>
> >> page] and [<a href="https://lists.forge.osor.eu/listinfo/gvsig-desktop-tsc-pub" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.forge.osor.eu/listinfo/gvsig-desktop-tsc-pub</a><br>
> >> public mailing list]<br>
> >><br>
> >> Can you please review the Incubation Checklist page (and the pages<br>
> >> that it links to) and make sure all links are working? I'd like to see<br>
> >> archives of the TSC mailing list showing that decisions are indeed<br>
> >> made in an open manner and in collaboration with the community on a<br>
> >> public list and I cannot find that at the moment. I managed to find an<br>
> >> old TSC archive at<br>
> >> <a href="http://joinup.ec.europa.eu/mailman/listinfo/gvsig-desktop-tsc-pub" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://joinup.ec.europa.eu/mailman/listinfo/gvsig-desktop-tsc-pub</a> but<br>
> >> the most recent posts date from 2013.<br>
> ><br>
> > Thank you for the feedback!.<br>
> > You are completely right. In its day, that part was reviewed and<br>
> > accepted already, so we complete the reviewing tasks that were pending.<br>
> > And right, there has been enough time to evolve the management of that<br>
> > part.<br>
> ><br>
> > Such was the case that we didn't pay attention to these links, and with<br>
> > the new gvSIG website (<<a href="http://www.gvsig.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.gvsig.org/</a>><a href="http://www.gvsig.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.gvsig.org</a>), to consult<br>
> > the contents of the old website, the text “docs” has to be added to the<br>
> > URL. For example, the link<br>
</div></div>> > (<<a href="https://docs.gvsig.org/web/working-groups/organizacion" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://docs.gvsig.org/web/working-groups/organizacion</a>><a href="https://gvsig.or" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://gvsig.or</a><br>
> > g/web/working-groups/organizacion)would be:<br>
> ><br>
> > <<a href="http://docs.gvsig.org/web/working-groups/organizacion" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://docs.gvsig.org/web/working-groups/organizacion</a>><a href="http://docs.gvsig" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://docs.gvsig</a>.<br>
<div><div class="h5">> > org/web/working-groups/organizacion<br>
> ><br>
> > With the advance of the project we have been correcting issues that we<br>
> > think they make us to be more efficient. Efficient in the meaning of<br>
> > eliminating the bureaucratic parts and speed up the decision making. It<br>
> > has also been possible, in a big part, thank to the professional<br>
> > structure of the project who works daily for the project. It can be<br>
> > different to other projects. It makes that the day-to-day decisions can<br>
> > be made by people of the professional structure (there's an architecture<br>
> > and development manager, and a product manager). The efficacy has been<br>
> > notable, and having a meeting every week to make small decisions didn't<br>
> > make as much as sense. It is thank to the professional structure that<br>
> > can dedicate all the time to gvSIG.<br>
> ><br>
> > And the TSC, that is composed of the main developers that are working on<br>
> > gvSIG, has a meeting after every final version in order to make<br>
> > decisions for the next version. Currently it is planned to release 2<br>
> > versions per year (one version in May and another one in December),<br>
> > although this year it has been an exception because we will release<br>
> > three versions (gvSIG 2.3 will be released in December). At that meeting<br>
> > it is decided what to work on for the next version. For example, for<br>
> > gvSIG 2.3, the next version, it's panned to make the effort to have a<br>
> > first distribution for MAC OS X and Windows 64 bits. It involves to<br>
> > change libraries for raster accessing and projections mainly... and we<br>
> > are working on it now.<br>
> ><br>
> > And instead of having proceedings, we preferred to advance one more step<br>
> > and publish the decisions publicly, because the proceedings are not read<br>
> > by a lot of people. Concretely in our blog. At this way, following the<br>
> > example of gvSIG 2.3, we announced that decision (this is the link in<br>
> > English but it was published in Spanish too):<br>
> ><br>
> > <<a href="http://blog.gvsig.org/2015/06/25/on-the-road-to-gvsig-2-3/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://blog.gvsig.org/2015/06/25/on-the-road-to-gvsig-2-3/</a>><a href="http://blog.g" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://blog.g</a><br>
> > <a href="http://vsig.org/2015/06/25/on-the-road-to-gvsig-2-3/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">vsig.org/2015/06/25/on-the-road-to-gvsig-2-3/</a><br>
> ><br>
> > Of course it doesn't mean that gvSIG includes only these changes. We<br>
> > have to include all the possible functionalities developed by the<br>
> > community that are integrated with that version (but it's out of the<br>
> > initial planning and the gvSIG scope of decision).<br>
> ><br>
> > And there's also some decisions about some objectives at these meetings<br>
> > that are not carried out at the next version. It is listed at the gvSIG<br>
> > redmine, at the “whislist” option -the access to this list is also<br>
> > public-:<br>
> ><br>
> > <<a href="https://redmine.gvsig.net/redmine/projects/gvsig-desktop/issues?utf8=%3F" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://redmine.gvsig.net/redmine/projects/gvsig-desktop/issues?utf8=%3F</a><br>
> > &set_filter=1&f[]=status_id&op[status_id]=o&f[]=tracker_id&op[tracker_id]<br>
> > =%3D&v[tracker_id][]=11&f[]=&c[]=tracker&c[]=status&c[]=priority&c[]=subj<br>
> > ect&c[]=assigned_to&c[]=updated_on&group_by><a href="https://redmine.gvsig.net/red" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://redmine.gvsig.net/red</a><br>
> > mine/projects/gvsig-desktop/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&set_filter=1&f[]=status<br>
> > _id&op[status_id]=o&f[]=tracker_id&op[tracker_id]=%3D&v[tracker_id][]=11&<br>
> > f[]=&c[]=tracker&c[]=status&c[]=priority&c[]=subject&c[]=assigned_to&c[]=<br>
</div></div><div><div class="h5">> > updated_on&group_by=<br>
> ><br>
> > *In summary:*<br>
> ><br>
> > We can correct these links, adding “docs”, but it wouldn't make much<br>
> > sense because now we work in another way, although it was reviewed then.<br>
> > It's another way that I think it is more open and agile.<br>
> ><br>
> > We would be able to summarize the information of this e-mail and add it<br>
> > to the checklist.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > And thank you again for reviewing our job!<br>
> ><br>
> > Alvaro Anguix<br>
> ><br>
> > gvSIG Association<br>
> ><br>
> >> Thanks<br>
> >><br>
> >> Daniel<br>
> >><br>
> >> On 2015-08-11 1:07 PM, Jody Garnett wrote:<br>
> >>> General call out to the committee to help review on this one :)<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> --<br>
> >>> Jody Garnett<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> On 28 July 2015 at 04:27, Dimitris Kotzinos <<a href="mailto:kotzino@gmail.com">kotzino@gmail.com</a><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:kotzino@gmail.com">kotzino@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
> >>> Dear all,<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> I am happy today to report to the list that the gvSIG project has<br>
> >>> fulfilled in my view all the criteria put forward by the OSGeo<br>
> >>> Incubation Committee and as the project mentor I support the<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> project's<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> request for graduation.<br>
> >>> gvSIG is one of the healthiest and very active projects around,<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> with a<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> solid developer and user base. It has been around for a long time<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> and<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> has done excellent things, the latest being an award at the NASA<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> World<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Wind contest received in FOSS4G-Europe in Como, Italy this month.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> I had the chance to meet with the gvSIG people at FOSS4G-E in<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Como and<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> we finalized the checklist for the project graduation. You can<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> find the<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> checklist here:<br>
> >>> <a href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GvSIG_Incubation_Checklist" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GvSIG_Incubation_Checklist</a><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> The people around gvSIG have responded greatly to all the requests<br>
> >>> I made as a mentor, they have gone even beyond that in many<br>
> >>> occasions, e.g. by providing live statistics on their developers'<br>
> >>> activity. They have gone through a code provenance review, they<br>
> >>> have user and developer lists in many languages and they have in<br>
> >>> place governance practices that abide with what I would consider<br>
> >>> proper governance of open source projects.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> I would like to ask the list to take the time and have a look to<br>
> >>> the checklist mentioned above and if anything is found out of the<br>
> >>> order please let me and Manuel Madrid <<a href="mailto:mmadrid@gvsig.com">mmadrid@gvsig.com</a><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mmadrid@gvsig.com">mmadrid@gvsig.com</a>>> know.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> I would also like to ask Jody to initiate the proper time period<br>
> >>> for comments and declare the time for voting when the time comes.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Finally I would like to thank Manuel and Alvaro from the gvSIG<br>
> >>> Association for their excellent collaboration and to publicly<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> apologize<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> to them that sometimes the work load prohibited me to be as<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> available<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> and responsive as I would like.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Thank you for your attention,<br>
> >>> Best regards,<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Dimitris<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> P.S.1: Although the project has made a great effort to provide<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> English<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> documentation for ... everything, some things might be found in<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Spanish<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> (their language of origin), as well as some of the most active<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> lists are<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> the Spanish ones. I respected that and I let the project take its<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> time<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> and decide by itself on what to translate and what not.<br>
> >>> But I would like to say kudos on their efforts to provide<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> everything in<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> at least both Spanish and English.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> P.S.2: Since during the process we had to switch from the checklist<br>
> >>> v.1.0 to v.2.0 of graduation requirements I was wondering what is<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> the<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> proper way to introduce comments and requests for changes for this.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> --<br>
> >>> Dimitris Kotzinos<br>
> >>> Professor<br>
> >>> Head MIDI team<br>
> >>> Lab. ETIS (ENSEA/UCP/CNRS UMR 8051)<br>
> >>> & Dept. Sciences Informatiques, Université de Cergy-Pontoise<br>
> >>> 2 av. Adolphe Chauvin<br>
> >>> Site Saint Martin, bureau A561<br>
> >>> 95000 Pontoise<br>
> >>> France<br>
> >>> phone: +33 13425 2855<br>
> >>> e-mail: <a href="mailto:Dimitrios.Kotzinos@u-cergy.fr">Dimitrios.Kotzinos@u-cergy.fr</a><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Dimitrios.Kotzinos@u-cergy.fr">Dimitrios.Kotzinos@u-cergy.fr</a>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>> Incubator mailing list<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> <a href="mailto:Incubator@lists.osgeo.org">Incubator@lists.osgeo.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Incubator@lists.osgeo.org">Incubator@lists.osgeo.org</a>><br>
> >>> <a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator</a><br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>> Incubator mailing list<br>
> >>> <a href="mailto:Incubator@lists.osgeo.org">Incubator@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
> >>> <a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator</a><br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > Incubator mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:Incubator@lists.osgeo.org">Incubator@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
> > <a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator</a><br>
<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>