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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Cameron, all,<br>
<br>
El 26/10/15 a las 21:46, Cameron Shorter escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:562E9109.5090506@gmail.com" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
Alvaro, Dimitris,<br>
Thanks for copying this documentation into a more prominent
location, but you have missed the core message from my comments.
The quality of the documentation is not yet of a standard worthy
of professional software.<br>
<br>
Would you use such documentation in a bid proposal for new work,
when competing against other companies? Because people reviewing
the quality of gvSIG will look at documentation like this to
assess the maturity of gvSIG.<br>
</blockquote>
Well, in my experience the clients never select a company by these
type of things. A client select a company by its experience, cv,
etc...<br>
We have clients around the world, and never, never a client ask us
about this type of technical documentation (about gvSIG or any other
of the open source software that we use -mapserver, geoserver,
postgis, openlayers, leaflet..-).<br>
But this is another discussion. For another day.<br>
:-)<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:562E9109.5090506@gmail.com" type="cite"> <br>
Personally, I find this documentation worthy of a first draft,
possibly written by a developer, which needs review from a
technical writer, of business development manager or similar, who
is used to writing concise technical documentation.<br>
<br>
I've copied the documentation into a word document, then used
track changes and comments to give you an indication of what I
would expect from such a review, and the level of quality that I
think should be considered the norm for an OSGeo Graduated
project.<br>
<br>
I realise I'm being harsh in my comments, but I hope you find it
better to hear such comments from a friend, rather than being
judged and dismissed by your potential customers further down the
track.<br>
</blockquote>
Thanks a lot for your work and for your suggestions to improve this
document. We have updated it [1] based on your comments,<br>
Really, I think that now we have a better information for
developers.<br>
<br>
With this issue solved...are we ready?<br>
<br>
[1]
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://docs.gvsig.org/plone/projects/gvsig-desktop/docs/about-technical-decisions/">http://docs.gvsig.org/plone/projects/gvsig-desktop/docs/about-technical-decisions/</a><br>
<br>
Regars,<br>
Alvaro<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:562E9109.5090506@gmail.com" type="cite"> <br>
Warm regards, Cameron<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 26/10/2015 8:23 pm, Alvaro Anguix
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:562DF122.7070105@gvsig.com" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Cameron, all,<br>
<br>
El 20/10/15 a las 22:48, Cameron Shorter escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CABqeU+h4pqgXVD5LeTKAX-y03Pj21C0g7bNtNFgq3szyXoHx0A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Alvaro
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You are right, I'm just one voice on the OSGeo
Incubation committee. It would be good to hear the opinion
of others as well.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
We've waited some days to answer in case somebody wanted to add
anything. We suppose that the order members of OSGeo Incubation
Committee agree with you, and that they aren't any other
additional requirements. <br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CABqeU+h4pqgXVD5LeTKAX-y03Pj21C0g7bNtNFgq3szyXoHx0A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div> <br>
You are right, writing style is not a graduation criteria,
and I'd vote to pass a project with sub-optimal writing
style if the rest of the processes are in order.<br>
<br>
"Institutionalized Processes which are documented and
FOLLOWED" is a requirement. My concern is that the
management processes as documented are probably not being
followed, as they would be difficult to be found by the
development team, and probably not trusted as they don't
look to be of the quality of the rest of the gvsig
project.<br>
<br>
Hence my recommendation to incorporate decision making
documentation into the rest of gvsig documentation.<br>
<br>
If time to complete is an issue, there are some work
around options which I think would be acceptable.<br>
Such as putting a placeholder in your master documentation
which references the wiki page where the core content is.
(With an intent to move the rest of the docs later).<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
We finally have copied the contests directly in the
documentation section (better than a placeholder):<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://docs.gvsig.org/plone/projects/gvsig-desktop/docs/about-technical-decisions/">http://docs.gvsig.org/plone/projects/gvsig-desktop/docs/about-technical-decisions/</a><br>
<br>
At this way all the contents are in the same site.<br>
<br>
In future, we'll migrate all the information to the new gvSIG
website (I hope it will be in the next months). <br>
<br>
We understand that everything is ok to proceed to vote the
graduation of gvSIG project.<br>
<br>
I would like to ask you when it's planned to decide it. I don't
know the procedure of OSGeo Incubation Committee from this
point.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Alvaro<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CABqeU+h4pqgXVD5LeTKAX-y03Pj21C0g7bNtNFgq3szyXoHx0A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div> I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on whether you
think my documentation comments are worth implementing,
and if so, see a plan as to how they would be implemented.
Ideally also mention a timeframe which would show how it
can be done in time for completing incubation before the
next gvsig conference.<br>
<br>
Warm regards, Cameron<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 7:05 AM,
Alvaro Anguix <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:aanguix@gvsig.com"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:aanguix@gvsig.com">aanguix@gvsig.com</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>Hi Cameron, all,<br>
<br>
El 20/10/15 a las 21:07, Cameron Shorter escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> Hi Alvaro,<span class=""><br>
I agree that it would be great to announce gvSIG's
graduation from OSGeo incubation at the gvSIG
conference (on 4 Dec?), and I think it is also
achievable, but require a quick turn around. I'd
like to help you with that from the OSGeo
Incubation Committee side of things.<br>
<br>
With regards to the question of quality of
documentation of decision making processes, I do
think this is important from an incubation
perspective, and is related to having
"institutionalized processes".<br>
<br>
Refer to:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.osgeo.org/incubator/process/project_graduation_checklist.html"
target="_blank">http://www.osgeo.org/incubator/process/project_graduation_checklist.html</a><br>
<br>
<span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:17.92px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">A
project should have institutionalized the
processes in this list or provide justification
why the process is not used.<span> <br>
...<br>
<br>
</span></span><dt
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:17.92px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Institutionalized
Process</dt>
<dd
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:17.92px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">A
documented process which which addresses a need
and is actively in use. It typically takes
months before a process becomes
institutionalized.<br>
<i>A more detailed definition of
institutionalization is found in the<span> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.sei.cmu.edu/library/abstracts/reports/02tr012.cfm"
style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(102,51,102)" target="_blank">Capability
Maturity Model (CMMI)</a></i></dd>
<dt
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:17.92px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Open
Source License<br>
</dt>
</span></blockquote>
<span lang="en"><br>
<span>I agree</span><span>, but I think</span> <span>the</span>
<span>point</span> <span>is made/ok</span><span>. <br>
<br>
</span></span><span lang="en"><span>In</span> <span>your
comments</span> <span>of the last</span> <span>email,</span>
<span>you gave</span> <span>advice</span> about <span>writing
style</span> <span>or the order of</span> <span>
documentation</span> publication (<span>referring
to</span> <span>language).</span> <span>Honestly,</span>
<span>I think they are</span> <span></span> <span>advices
and recommendations</span><span></span><span></span><span>,</span>
<span>but</span> <span>not a requirement</span> <span>for</span>
<span>graduation. </span><br>
<br>
I<span>s it necessary to</span> <span>comply with</span>
<span>those recommendations</span><span>? </span></span><span
lang="en"><span><span lang="en"><span>I would like
the</span> <span>committee</span> <span>clearly</span>
<span>answers this question</span><span>.<br>
<br>
</span></span>Are we not getting into a level of
detail that also is subjective</span></span><span
lang="en"><span><span lang="en"><span></span><span></span></span>?<br>
<br>
Best Regards,<br>
Alvaro <br>
<br>
</span></span>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite"> Warm regards, Cameron<br>
<br>
<div>On 19/10/2015 10:17 pm, Alvaro Anguix
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Hi Cameron, <br>
<br>
About the documentation in Spanish/English,
we are finishing the last translations of
the user and developer documentation, and we
will have the 100% of the gvSIG
documentation in Spanish and English (and in
Portuguese too). We also are finishing the
migration of the old infrastructure (<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://docs.gvsig.org"
target="_blank">docs.gvsig.org</a>) to the
new one. In any case we take all the
suggestions and improvements into account,
that we will tackle as soon as possible. <br>
<br>
Anyway, the doubt that we have is if these
suggestions are requirements for the
incubation. We understand that they aren't
requirements for the graduation, but we
would like to confirm it. Mainly because the
11th International gvSIG Conference will be
held soon, and we would like to announce the
graduation previously. <br>
<br>
Thank you very much!<br>
<br>
Best regards, <br>
Alvaro <br>
<br>
<br>
El 16/10/15 a las 22:10, Cameron Shorter
escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> Hi Alvaro,<br>
Sorry for the slow response.<br>
<br>
Thanks for your updated principles. I've
just reviewed and here is my feedback:<br>
<br>
I think that you have captured the process
of making technical decisions, which is
good. However:<br>
<br>
* The documentation is in a wiki [1], and
not presented in the same prominence as the
rest of the gvsig documentation [2]. I'd
suggest that your processes should be moved
out of the wiki, and into the same doc
system as the rest of the docs, probably at:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://docs.gvsig.org/web/projects/gvsig-desktop/docs/">http://docs.gvsig.org/web/projects/gvsig-desktop/docs/</a><something><br>
You might want to include the processes as
another chapter in the existing Developers
Guide.<br>
A good example you could follow is the
GeoServer docs page [3] which includes
"Policies and Procedures".<br>
<br>
* The current text reads a bit like a news
article, written from an outsider's point of
view, describing how you have noticed that
decisions are made. What would be better is
writing an authoritative process which gvSig
team members sometimes quote and refer to
when making decisions. A news article
becomes dated, a documented process should
be useful for the community, and will get
updated over time.<br>
<br>
* The text looks like it has been written by
one person, and hasn't yet been reviewed by
other core gvSig members. I'd suggest that
you'd likely get good feedback from your
internal gvSig community if you were to ask:<br>
"Does this text accurately represent how we
should make decisions in the future? Are we
as a community prepared to use this
documented process as a guide for our future
decisions?"<br>
<br>
* I notice that much of the gvSig
documentation is written in Spanish. I'm not
sure, but it is possible you would get
better feedback from your community if this
document was written first in Spanish, and
if desired, later translated to English.<br>
<br>
Sorry again for the delayed response, and
also for giving you more homework. I do
encourage you to keep going because I think
it would be valuable for the gvsig
community.<br>
<br>
Warm regards, Cameron<br>
<br>
[1] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://redmine.gvsig.net/redmine/projects/gvsig-desktop/wiki/Wiki"
target="_blank">https://redmine.gvsig.net/redmine/projects/gvsig-desktop/wiki/Wiki</a><br>
[2] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://docs.gvsig.org/web/projects/gvsig-desktop/docs/"
target="_blank">http://docs.gvsig.org/web/projects/gvsig-desktop/docs/</a><br>
[3] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://docs.geoserver.org/"
target="_blank">http://docs.geoserver.org/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 8/10/2015 7:19 am, Jody Garnett
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Thanks Alvaro! Recovering
from foss4g on this end, thanks for
updating the wiki. I believe we are
getting down to the end here, thanks for
the clarifications.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>--</div>
<div>Jody Garnett</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 1 October
2015 at 05:37, Alvaro Anguix <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:aanguix@gvsig.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:aanguix@gvsig.com">aanguix@gvsig.com</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">Hello,<br>
<br>
Apologies for the delay, but I've
been in 2nd gvSIG Conference in Peru<br>
and I couldn't update the checklist
information before.<br>
Now it's updated: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GvSIG_Incubation_Checklist"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GvSIG_Incubation_Checklist">http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GvSIG_Incubation_Checklist</a></a><br>
<br>
The principal link about technical
decisions and gvSIG organization is
this:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://redmine.gvsig.net/redmine/projects/gvsig-desktop/wiki/Wiki"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://redmine.gvsig.net/redmine/projects/gvsig-desktop/wiki/Wiki</a><br>
<br>
Best Regards,<br>
Alvaro<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Incubator mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Incubator@lists.osgeo.org"
target="_blank">Incubator@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
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href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
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<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Cameron Shorter,
Software and Data Solutions Manager
LISAsoft
Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
P <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B61%202%209009%205000" value="+61290095000" target="_blank">+61 2 9009 5000</a>, W <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.lisasoft.com" target="_blank">www.lisasoft.com</a>, F <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B61%202%209009%205099" value="+61290095099" target="_blank">+61 2 9009 5099</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Cameron Shorter,
Software and Data Solutions Manager
LISAsoft
Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
P <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B61%202%209009%205000" value="+61290095000" target="_blank">+61 2 9009 5000</a>, W <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.lisasoft.com" target="_blank">www.lisasoft.com</a>, F <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B61%202%209009%205099" value="+61290095099" target="_blank">+61 2 9009 5099</a></pre>
</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
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<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>-- </div>
<div>Cameron Shorter,</div>
<div>Software and Data Solutions Manager</div>
<div>LISAsoft</div>
<div>Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,</div>
<div>26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>P +61 2 9009 5000, W <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.lisasoft.com" target="_blank">www.lisasoft.com</a>,
F +61 2 9009 5099</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Cameron Shorter,
Software and Data Solutions Manager
LISAsoft
Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
P +61 2 9009 5000, W <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.lisasoft.com">www.lisasoft.com</a>, F +61 2 9009 5099</pre>
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