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Hi Alvaro,<br>
I'm now satisfied with the quality of the documentation. Thank you.<br>
<br>
Hi Dimitris,<br>
I'll follow up on your email thread requesting a vote for
graduation.<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 27/10/2015 8:29 pm, Alvaro Anguix
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:562F440D.7080809@gvsig.com" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Cameron, all,<br>
<br>
El 26/10/15 a las 21:46, Cameron Shorter escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:562E9109.5090506@gmail.com" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
Alvaro, Dimitris,<br>
Thanks for copying this documentation into a more prominent
location, but you have missed the core message from my comments.
The quality of the documentation is not yet of a standard worthy
of professional software.<br>
<br>
Would you use such documentation in a bid proposal for new work,
when competing against other companies? Because people reviewing
the quality of gvSIG will look at documentation like this to
assess the maturity of gvSIG.<br>
</blockquote>
Well, in my experience the clients never select a company by these
type of things. A client select a company by its experience, cv,
etc...<br>
We have clients around the world, and never, never a client ask us
about this type of technical documentation (about gvSIG or any
other of the open source software that we use -mapserver,
geoserver, postgis, openlayers, leaflet..-).<br>
But this is another discussion. For another day.<br>
:-)<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:562E9109.5090506@gmail.com" type="cite"> <br>
Personally, I find this documentation worthy of a first draft,
possibly written by a developer, which needs review from a
technical writer, of business development manager or similar,
who is used to writing concise technical documentation.<br>
<br>
I've copied the documentation into a word document, then used
track changes and comments to give you an indication of what I
would expect from such a review, and the level of quality that I
think should be considered the norm for an OSGeo Graduated
project.<br>
<br>
I realise I'm being harsh in my comments, but I hope you find it
better to hear such comments from a friend, rather than being
judged and dismissed by your potential customers further down
the track.<br>
</blockquote>
Thanks a lot for your work and for your suggestions to improve
this document. We have updated it [1] based on your comments,<br>
Really, I think that now we have a better information for
developers.<br>
<br>
With this issue solved...are we ready?<br>
<br>
[1]
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://docs.gvsig.org/plone/projects/gvsig-desktop/docs/about-technical-decisions/">http://docs.gvsig.org/plone/projects/gvsig-desktop/docs/about-technical-decisions/</a><br>
<br>
Regars,<br>
Alvaro<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:562E9109.5090506@gmail.com" type="cite"> <br>
Warm regards, Cameron<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 26/10/2015 8:23 pm, Alvaro
Anguix wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:562DF122.7070105@gvsig.com" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Cameron, all,<br>
<br>
El 20/10/15 a las 22:48, Cameron Shorter escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CABqeU+h4pqgXVD5LeTKAX-y03Pj21C0g7bNtNFgq3szyXoHx0A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Alvaro
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You are right, I'm just one voice on the OSGeo
Incubation committee. It would be good to hear the
opinion of others as well.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
We've waited some days to answer in case somebody wanted to
add anything. We suppose that the order members of OSGeo
Incubation Committee agree with you, and that they aren't any
other additional requirements. <br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CABqeU+h4pqgXVD5LeTKAX-y03Pj21C0g7bNtNFgq3szyXoHx0A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div> <br>
You are right, writing style is not a graduation
criteria, and I'd vote to pass a project with
sub-optimal writing style if the rest of the processes
are in order.<br>
<br>
"Institutionalized Processes which are documented and
FOLLOWED" is a requirement. My concern is that the
management processes as documented are probably not
being followed, as they would be difficult to be found
by the development team, and probably not trusted as
they don't look to be of the quality of the rest of the
gvsig project.<br>
<br>
Hence my recommendation to incorporate decision making
documentation into the rest of gvsig documentation.<br>
<br>
If time to complete is an issue, there are some work
around options which I think would be acceptable.<br>
Such as putting a placeholder in your master
documentation which references the wiki page where the
core content is. (With an intent to move the rest of the
docs later).<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
We finally have copied the contests directly in the
documentation section (better than a placeholder):<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://docs.gvsig.org/plone/projects/gvsig-desktop/docs/about-technical-decisions/">http://docs.gvsig.org/plone/projects/gvsig-desktop/docs/about-technical-decisions/</a><br>
<br>
At this way all the contents are in the same site.<br>
<br>
In future, we'll migrate all the information to the new gvSIG
website (I hope it will be in the next months). <br>
<br>
We understand that everything is ok to proceed to vote the
graduation of gvSIG project.<br>
<br>
I would like to ask you when it's planned to decide it. I
don't know the procedure of OSGeo Incubation Committee from
this point.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Alvaro<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CABqeU+h4pqgXVD5LeTKAX-y03Pj21C0g7bNtNFgq3szyXoHx0A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div> I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on whether
you think my documentation comments are worth
implementing, and if so, see a plan as to how they would
be implemented. Ideally also mention a timeframe which
would show how it can be done in time for completing
incubation before the next gvsig conference.<br>
<br>
Warm regards, Cameron<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 7:05 AM,
Alvaro Anguix <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:aanguix@gvsig.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:aanguix@gvsig.com">aanguix@gvsig.com</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>Hi Cameron, all,<br>
<br>
El 20/10/15 a las 21:07, Cameron Shorter escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> Hi Alvaro,<span class=""><br>
I agree that it would be great to announce
gvSIG's graduation from OSGeo incubation at the
gvSIG conference (on 4 Dec?), and I think it is
also achievable, but require a quick turn
around. I'd like to help you with that from the
OSGeo Incubation Committee side of things.<br>
<br>
With regards to the question of quality of
documentation of decision making processes, I do
think this is important from an incubation
perspective, and is related to having
"institutionalized processes".<br>
<br>
Refer to:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.osgeo.org/incubator/process/project_graduation_checklist.html"
target="_blank">http://www.osgeo.org/incubator/process/project_graduation_checklist.html</a><br>
<br>
<span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:17.92px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">A
project should have institutionalized the
processes in this list or provide
justification why the process is not used.<span>
<br>
...<br>
<br>
</span></span><dt
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:17.92px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Institutionalized
Process</dt>
<dd
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:17.92px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">A
documented process which which addresses a
need and is actively in use. It typically
takes months before a process becomes
institutionalized.<br>
<i>A more detailed definition of
institutionalization is found in the<span> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.sei.cmu.edu/library/abstracts/reports/02tr012.cfm"
style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(102,51,102)" target="_blank">Capability
Maturity Model (CMMI)</a></i></dd>
<dt
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:17.92px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Open
Source License<br>
</dt>
</span></blockquote>
<span lang="en"><br>
<span>I agree</span><span>, but I think</span> <span>the</span>
<span>point</span> <span>is made/ok</span><span>.
<br>
<br>
</span></span><span lang="en"><span>In</span> <span>your
comments</span> <span>of the last</span> <span>email,</span>
<span>you gave</span> <span>advice</span> about <span>writing
style</span> <span>or the order of</span> <span>
documentation</span> publication (<span>referring
to</span> <span>language).</span> <span>Honestly,</span>
<span>I think they are</span> <span></span> <span>advices
and recommendations</span><span></span><span></span><span>,</span>
<span>but</span> <span>not a requirement</span> <span>for</span>
<span>graduation. </span><br>
<br>
I<span>s it necessary to</span> <span>comply with</span>
<span>those recommendations</span><span>? </span></span><span
lang="en"><span><span lang="en"><span>I would like
the</span> <span>committee</span> <span>clearly</span>
<span>answers this question</span><span>.<br>
<br>
</span></span>Are we not getting into a level
of detail that also is subjective</span></span><span
lang="en"><span><span lang="en"><span></span><span></span></span>?<br>
<br>
Best Regards,<br>
Alvaro <br>
<br>
</span></span>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite"> Warm regards, Cameron<br>
<br>
<div>On 19/10/2015 10:17 pm, Alvaro Anguix
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Hi Cameron, <br>
<br>
About the documentation in
Spanish/English, we are finishing the last
translations of the user and developer
documentation, and we will have the 100%
of the gvSIG documentation in Spanish and
English (and in Portuguese too). We also
are finishing the migration of the old
infrastructure (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://docs.gvsig.org"
target="_blank">docs.gvsig.org</a>) to
the new one. In any case we take all the
suggestions and improvements into account,
that we will tackle as soon as possible. <br>
<br>
Anyway, the doubt that we have is if these
suggestions are requirements for the
incubation. We understand that they aren't
requirements for the graduation, but we
would like to confirm it. Mainly because
the 11th International gvSIG Conference
will be held soon, and we would like to
announce the graduation previously. <br>
<br>
Thank you very much!<br>
<br>
Best regards, <br>
Alvaro <br>
<br>
<br>
El 16/10/15 a las 22:10, Cameron Shorter
escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> Hi Alvaro,<br>
Sorry for the slow response.<br>
<br>
Thanks for your updated principles. I've
just reviewed and here is my feedback:<br>
<br>
I think that you have captured the process
of making technical decisions, which is
good. However:<br>
<br>
* The documentation is in a wiki [1], and
not presented in the same prominence as
the rest of the gvsig documentation [2].
I'd suggest that your processes should be
moved out of the wiki, and into the same
doc system as the rest of the docs,
probably at: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://docs.gvsig.org/web/projects/gvsig-desktop/docs/">http://docs.gvsig.org/web/projects/gvsig-desktop/docs/</a><something><br>
You might want to include the processes as
another chapter in the existing Developers
Guide.<br>
A good example you could follow is the
GeoServer docs page [3] which includes
"Policies and Procedures".<br>
<br>
* The current text reads a bit like a news
article, written from an outsider's point
of view, describing how you have noticed
that decisions are made. What would be
better is writing an authoritative process
which gvSig team members sometimes quote
and refer to when making decisions. A news
article becomes dated, a documented
process should be useful for the
community, and will get updated over time.<br>
<br>
* The text looks like it has been written
by one person, and hasn't yet been
reviewed by other core gvSig members. I'd
suggest that you'd likely get good
feedback from your internal gvSig
community if you were to ask:<br>
"Does this text accurately represent how
we should make decisions in the future?
Are we as a community prepared to use this
documented process as a guide for our
future decisions?"<br>
<br>
* I notice that much of the gvSig
documentation is written in Spanish. I'm
not sure, but it is possible you would get
better feedback from your community if
this document was written first in
Spanish, and if desired, later translated
to English.<br>
<br>
Sorry again for the delayed response, and
also for giving you more homework. I do
encourage you to keep going because I
think it would be valuable for the gvsig
community.<br>
<br>
Warm regards, Cameron<br>
<br>
[1] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://redmine.gvsig.net/redmine/projects/gvsig-desktop/wiki/Wiki"
target="_blank">https://redmine.gvsig.net/redmine/projects/gvsig-desktop/wiki/Wiki</a><br>
[2] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://docs.gvsig.org/web/projects/gvsig-desktop/docs/"
target="_blank">http://docs.gvsig.org/web/projects/gvsig-desktop/docs/</a><br>
[3] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://docs.geoserver.org/"
target="_blank">http://docs.geoserver.org/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 8/10/2015 7:19 am, Jody Garnett
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Thanks Alvaro! Recovering
from foss4g on this end, thanks for
updating the wiki. I believe we are
getting down to the end here, thanks
for the clarifications.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>--</div>
<div>Jody Garnett</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 1 October
2015 at 05:37, Alvaro Anguix <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:aanguix@gvsig.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:aanguix@gvsig.com">aanguix@gvsig.com</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">Hello,<br>
<br>
Apologies for the delay, but I've
been in 2nd gvSIG Conference in
Peru<br>
and I couldn't update the
checklist information before.<br>
Now it's updated: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GvSIG_Incubation_Checklist"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GvSIG_Incubation_Checklist">http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GvSIG_Incubation_Checklist</a></a><br>
<br>
The principal link about technical
decisions and gvSIG organization
is this:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://redmine.gvsig.net/redmine/projects/gvsig-desktop/wiki/Wiki"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://redmine.gvsig.net/redmine/projects/gvsig-desktop/wiki/Wiki</a><br>
<br>
Best Regards,<br>
Alvaro<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Incubator mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Incubator@lists.osgeo.org"
target="_blank">Incubator@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
Incubator mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Incubator@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Incubator@lists.osgeo.org</a>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Cameron Shorter,
Software and Data Solutions Manager
LISAsoft
Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
P <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B61%202%209009%205000" value="+61290095000" target="_blank">+61 2 9009 5000</a>, W <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.lisasoft.com" target="_blank">www.lisasoft.com</a>, F <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B61%202%209009%205099" value="+61290095099" target="_blank">+61 2 9009 5099</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Cameron Shorter,
Software and Data Solutions Manager
LISAsoft
Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
P <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B61%202%209009%205000" value="+61290095000" target="_blank">+61 2 9009 5000</a>, W <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.lisasoft.com" target="_blank">www.lisasoft.com</a>, F <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B61%202%209009%205099" value="+61290095099" target="_blank">+61 2 9009 5099</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>-- </div>
<div>Cameron Shorter,</div>
<div>Software and Data Solutions Manager</div>
<div>LISAsoft</div>
<div>Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,</div>
<div>26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>P +61 2 9009 5000, W <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.lisasoft.com" target="_blank">www.lisasoft.com</a>,
F +61 2 9009 5099</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Incubator mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Incubator@lists.osgeo.org">Incubator@lists.osgeo.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Cameron Shorter,
Software and Data Solutions Manager
LISAsoft
Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
P +61 2 9009 5000, W <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.lisasoft.com">www.lisasoft.com</a>, F +61 2 9009 5099</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Cameron Shorter,
Software and Data Solutions Manager
LISAsoft
Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
P +61 2 9009 5000, W <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.lisasoft.com">www.lisasoft.com</a>, F +61 2 9009 5099</pre>
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