<div style="white-space:pre-wrap">We are setting something up different that is not OSGeo labs.  We are validating - that these projects are open source and participatory.<br><br>The result is hopefully a larger OSGeo community.<br><br>This direction comes out of a board discussion around being inclusive and innovative. It could be the OSGeo Technology idea won't fly ... <br><br>Our OSGeo incubation process is set up for stability and safety. While I respect this it is holding us back from including different categories of projects.<br><br>I think the larger issue for the board to wrestle with is that the foundation does not provide enough value to projects. While they are willing to step up assistance (say incubation sprint or external code review) we on the incubation list need to look at our priorities on who we can extend this assistance to.<br><br>I would still like to see projects like pgRouting try their hand at incubation. I think it is a shame incubation. and the foundation, is considered hard.<br><br>In fact open source is hard, and we are here to help. </div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 2:35 AM Cameron Shorter <<a href="mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com">cameron.shorter@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    Hey Jody,<br>
    I'm actually agreeing with all you are suggesting doing with the
    rebranded "OSGeo Labs", except the name "OSGeo Technology". This
    name misrepresents the "Self Serve", non-validated concept of "OSGeo
    Labs". The name implies "built out of OSGeo Projects".  This is a
    dis-service to people who come to our site for the first time, a
    dis-service to "OSGeo Projects" who now become associated with
    immature projects.<br>
    <br>
    Pick a more accurate name than "OSGeo Technology" and I'd back the
    rest of what you are suggesting.<br>
    <br>
    Warm regards, Cameron</div><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><br>
    <br>
    <div>On 7/03/2016 9:55 am, Jody Garnett
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">This is going to be a tough one Cameron ... our
        brand currently has a reputation for turning projects away ...
        not quality.
        <div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>The long story short is how to respond to the direction
            to be inclusive. We have two strong characters on this
            mailing list with an axe to grind making it difficult for
            projects to be part of OSGeo. I am very keen on projects
            *being* open source, and you are very keen on making
            projects safe for users to adopt (project viability,
            quality, open standards).
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>I am proposing repurposing "OSGeo Labs" (which did not
              promise anything as a brand and got adopted by GeoForAll)
              as "OSGeo Technology" to focus on the open source angle;
              in order to preserve "OSGeo Projects" (and incubation) to
              focus on the second.</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>
              <div>We have a tension here between being inclusive (read
                easy) and transparent (which takes effort).</div>
            </div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>How would you like to add "transparency" to this mix?
              We could provide a table with website, download,
              documentation, test results - not sure if that would help
              with transparency?</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>I know we keep coming back to a rating system on this
              mailing list - I recognize your work in this area for
              OSGeo Live with the introduction of black duck metrics. I
              imagine you would also be happy to phrase things as
              positive "badges" (for projects that have documentation,
              or quality assurance, or standards testing).  For quality,
              documentation and so forth I think we are stuck leading by
              example (and perhaps working with the OGC on standards
              compliance).</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>
              <div>
                <div class="gmail_extra">
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <div dir="ltr">
                        <div>
                          <div dir="ltr">
                            <div>On 3 March 2016 at 23:57, Cameron
                              Shorter <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com" target="_blank"><a href="mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com" target="_blank">cameron.shorter@gmail.com</a></a>></span>
                              wrote:<br>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div class="gmail_quote">
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi
                      Jody,<br>
                      I agree with your suggestion that "Old OSGeo Labs"
                      need not have an aim of entering OSGeo incubation.<br>
                      However, I object to any project becoming
                      associated with OSGeo without it being obvious
                      about the level of quality control the project has
                      gone through.<br>
                      <br>
                      As suggested below, I could knock together 100
                      lines of uncommented, non-working code, give it an
                      open source license, and then add a "OSGeo
                      Technology" logo to the home page. And most
                      average punters wouldn't know the difference
                      between term "OSGeo Project" and "OSGeo
                      Technology". This would result in diminishing the
                      current association between OSGeo applications and
                      quality, which would be a bad thing.<br>
                      <br>
                      I feel "OSGeo Labs", "OSGeo Community Builder
                      Projects", or shortened to "OSGeo Builder
                      Projects" are less likely to be confused with
                      "OSGeo Incubated" projects.<br>
                      <br>
                      Warm regards, Cameron
                      <div>
                        <div><br>
                          <br>
                          On 4/03/2016 2:13 am, Stephen Woodbridge
                          wrote:<br>
                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">+1,
                            I think these changes make a lot of sense
                            and as part of an OSGeo Technology project
                            this feels very inclusive.<br>
                            <br>
                            -Steve W<br>
                            <br>
                            On 3/3/2016 9:46 AM, Jody Garnett wrote:<br>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">I
                              would like to change the tone of the page
                              a bit, since it "assumes"<br>
                              incubation ..<br>
                              <br>
                                  /OSGeo Labs is an umbrella for open
                              source geospatial software<br>
                                  projects that would like to become
                              OSGeo projects in the future, but<br>
                                  that aren't ready for incubation quite
                              yet. It is appropriate to<br>
                                  submit your new or experimental
                              project as an OSGeo labs project./<br>
                                  /<br>
                                  /<br>
                                  /The volunteers that work as part of
                              OSGeo Labs have the goal of<br>
                                  helping OSGeo Labs Projects qualify
                              for incubation. To reach this<br>
                                  goal, OSGeo Labs volunteers help OSGeo
                              Labs Projects with the<br>
                                  following tasks:<br>
                                  /<br>
                              <br>
                              <br>
                              Would become:<br>
                              <br>
                                  /Welcome to OSGeo Technology. The
                              projects listed here are part of<br>
                                  the Open Source Geospatial Foundation
                              and range from new<br>
                                  experimental projects to established
                              pillars of our open source<br>
                                  ecosystem./<br>
                                  /<br>
                                  /<br>
                                  /All projects here meet our goals as
                              an organization - they are open<br>
                                  source (no really we checked) and are
                              inclusive and welcoming to new<br>
                                  contributors./<br>
                                  /<br>
                                  /<br>
                              <br>
                                  /Projects that go on to establish
                              excellence in community building,<br>
                                  documentation, and governance can
                              enter our "incubation" program. /<br>
                              <br>
                              <br>
                              I would also lose the "status" conditions
                              seed/seedling/sapling/adult<br>
                              and keep OSGeo Technology focused on the
                              basics (open source &<br>
                              inclusive). The status becomes having the
                              "OSGeo Technology" badge nice<br>
                              and simple.<br>
                              <br>
                              Thinking this through a bit more we have
                              one clear reason for projects<br>
                              to go through with incubation - being
                              recognized by the board and having<br>
                              an OSGeo Officer listed directly for the
                              project, while OSGeo Technology<br>
                              projects "share" an officer (as part of
                              "incubation committee").<br>
                              -- <br>
                              Jody Garnett<br>
                              <br>
                              On 11 February 2016 at 11:04, Landon Blake
                              <<a href="mailto:sunburned.surveyor@gmail.com" target="_blank">sunburned.surveyor@gmail.com</a><br>
                              <mailto:<a href="mailto:sunburned.surveyor@gmail.com" target="_blank">sunburned.surveyor@gmail.com</a>>>
                              wrote:<br>
                              <br>
                                  There is some good information on what
                              we were trying to achieve<br>
                                  with the old OSGeo Labs on the wiki:<br>
                              <br>
                                  <a href="https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Labs" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Labs</a><br>
                              <br>
                                  I think most of that information on
                              the wiki still applies. This<br>
                                  includes the purpose of labs, how
                              projects get started in labs, what<br>
                                  labs is trying to accomplish, and the
                              criteria to determine if your<br>
                                  project is a good fit for labs.<br>
                              <br>
                                  Does anyone have major heartburn with
                              what is laid out on that wiki<br>
                                  page? (I'll rename the wiki page as
                              soon as we get a new name for labs.)<br>
                              <br>
                                  Landon<br>
                              <br>
                                 
                              _______________________________________________<br>
                                  Incubator mailing list<br>
                                  <a href="mailto:Incubator@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Incubator@lists.osgeo.org</a>
                              <mailto:<a href="mailto:Incubator@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Incubator@lists.osgeo.org</a>><br>
                                  <a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator</a><br>
                              <br>
                              <br>
                              <br>
                              <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                              Incubator mailing list<br>
                              <a href="mailto:Incubator@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Incubator@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
                              <a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator</a><br>
                              <br>
                            </blockquote>
                            <br>
                            <br>
                            ---<br>
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                            <a href="mailto:Incubator@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Incubator@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
                            <a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator</a><br>
                          </blockquote>
                          <br>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <span><font color="#888888">
                          -- <br>
                          Cameron Shorter,<br>
                          Software and Data Solutions Manager<br>
                          LISAsoft<br>
                          Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,<br>
                          26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009<br>
                          <br>
                          P <a href="tel:%2B61%202%209009%205000" value="+61290095000" target="_blank">+61 2
                            9009 5000</a>,  W <a href="http://www.lisasoft.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.lisasoft.com</a>, 
                          F <a href="tel:%2B61%202%209009%205099" value="+61290095099" target="_blank">+61 2
                            9009 5099</a></font></span>
                      <div>
                        <div><br>
                          <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                          Incubator mailing list<br>
                          <a href="mailto:Incubator@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Incubator@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
                          <a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator</a></div>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre cols="72">-- 
Cameron Shorter,
Software and Data Solutions Manager
LISAsoft
Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009

P +61 2 9009 5000,  W <a href="http://www.lisasoft.com" target="_blank">www.lisasoft.com</a>,  F +61 2 9009 5099</pre>
  </div></blockquote></div><div dir="ltr">-- <br></div><div dir="ltr">--<div>Jody Garnett</div></div>