<div style="white-space:pre-wrap">We have an impasse as this is one of those discussions (like licensing) where both parties can be correct. In this case the conflict is not with our ideals of open source but with our ideals inclusive governance.<br><br>Well I am prepared to ask the board - our president has given us a strong mandate assist projects joining the foundation. It will however be a pretty soul searching discussion for who we are as a foundation. This is not a standard the incubation committee can relax on our own.<br><br><br><br><br><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 5:54 PM Landon Blake <<a href="mailto:sunburned.surveyor@gmail.com">sunburned.surveyor@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">What is the verdict on the "benevolent dictator" issue? I'm thinking this probably won't fly with our board, or our larger community.</div><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>Landon</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 10:56 PM, Peter Baumann <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:p.baumann@jacobs-university.de" target="_blank">p.baumann@jacobs-university.de</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Cameron-<br>
<br>
I understand where you are coming from, and your characterization is
definitely correct. While our process is and always has been
absolutely open to discussion so as to obtain the scientifically and
technically best solution this "benevolent dictatorship" has brought
rasdaman to where it stands now - it is designed by innovation, not
by committee. Just to get me right, our model is certainly not the
right one for every endeavour. Here it is the most appropriate, and
hence we will keep it.<br>
<br>
As you observe, this model is not contradicting OS as such, and many
projects run it. So ultimately it lies in the hand of OSGeo to
decide whether they accept the existing plurality of approaches (in
this case manifest with rasdaman).<br>
<br>
best,<br>
Peter<div><div><br>
<br>
<div>On 04/30/2016 10:47 PM, Cameron Shorter
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
Bruce, Peter,<br>
I've read through the incubation process documentation, and can
only see one thing which I think breaks our OSGeo principles.<br>
<br>
The Governance model includes a statement:<br>
"In all issues, the PSC strives to achieve unanimous consent based
on a free, independent exchange of facts and opinions. Should such
consent exceptionally not be reached then Peter Baumann has a
casting vote."<br>
<a href="http://www.rasdaman.org/wiki/Governance" target="_blank">http://www.rasdaman.org/wiki/Governance</a><br>
<br>
This is describing a "benevolent dictator" model, which has proved
to be an effective model for many open source projects. See Eric
Raymond's "Homesteading the Noosphere": <a href="http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/homesteading/homesteading/ar01s16.html" target="_blank">http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/homesteading/homesteading/ar01s16.html</a><br>
<br>
However, it is not in line with existing OSGeo Incubated projects,
which have documented a "vote by PSC" as the defining governance
process. In practice, the PSC community debate alternatives, and
if needed, respectfully revert to reasoned advice provided by the
"benevolent dictator".<br>
<br>
Peter, are you open to changing the governance model to a "vote by
PSC"?<br>
I'd be comfortable with a "vote by PSC, with PSC chair being given
1.5 votes to break any deadlocks. I'd also be ok with PSC chair
defaulting to Peter (as founder), until such time as Peter resigns
from the role."<br>
<br>
Warm regards, Cameron<br>
<br>
<div>On 19/10/2014 8:30 am, Cameron
Shorter wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> Hi
Peter and Bruce,<br>
I've reviewed the incubation documentation provided, and
provided a few spot reviews of the referenced documentation.<br>
Overall, I think the documentation is in good shape, but missing
explanations, particularly around licenses and testing.<br>
<br>
<br>
Below are a few things that I'd like to see looked into before
final sign off:<br>
<br>
Looking at: <a href="http://rasdaman.org/wiki/OSGeoIncubationChecklist" target="_blank">http://rasdaman.org/wiki/OSGeoIncubationChecklist</a>
which provides the summary about how the project is ready to
complete graduation.<br>
<br>
* For each statement that you are addressing, please add a brief
sentence explaining HOW you are addressing the statement,
possibly also with an OPINION.<br>
For instance, currently for: "Open communication channels", you
have "see MailingLists".<br>
In reviewing, I can see that a mailing list has been set up. In
looking at the list, I see users are asked questions on the user
list and there are answers. I can see that auto-patch messages
are being pumped into the developers list. In my quick scan, I
can't see discussions between developers about a new feature,
and discussions about a design idea. So I'd suggest describing
how communication is happening. Maybe:<br>
"See MailingLists <URL>. User questions are typically
addressed on the user email list. Development is currently
mostly happening at Jacobs University, and discussions about
development typically happen in person, and the results of such
conversations are summarised onto the developer email list (or
...)."<br>
<br>
* For "Open Source License": I'd be hoping to see a statement
about the dual license, including a comment about the enterprise
license. I'm ok with the dual license concept which I think fits
with OSGeo principles. Further, from the material and links
provided, it seems plausible that the GPL license terms are
broken by LGPL and enterprise licensed products being
distributed.<br>
I feel there needs to be an explanation of the enterprise
license, and then about how LGPL products and enterprise
products don't need to be GPL (because they don't link in any
GPL libraries?).<br>
<br>
* "<i>Long term viability</i>": <br>
Sentence needed here discussing roughly how many contributors
you have, (as well as existing reference to patchmanager).<br>
<br>
* <i>Project documentation is available under an open license,
as documented here: Legal</i>: <br>
The referenced "Legal" link doesn't talk about Documentation.
Please reference correct documentation license link.<br>
<br>
* <i><a href="http://rasdaman.org/wiki/Legal" target="_blank">http://rasdaman.org/wiki/Legal</a></i>
: <br>
Remove references to "... blah-blah ..."<br>
<br>
* " <i>Which includes execution of the testing process before
releasing a stable release: <a href="http://212.201.49.21:35000/" target="_blank">http://212.201.49.21:35000/</a>"</i>
:<br>
Link requires user log in. A sentence explaining testing will
help here.<br>
<br>
* "<i>All patches submitted to the repository undergo review
before being applied to the code base: <a href="http://www.rasdaman.org/patchmanager" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rasdaman.org/patchmanager" target="_blank">http://www.rasdaman.org/patchmanager</a></i>"
: <br>
This doesn't confirm that patches are reviewed (by a person),
only that you use patchmanager.<br>
<br>
* "<i>Systemtests are to be run by developers before submitting
patches: <a href="http://www.rasdaman.org/wiki/CodeGuide" target="_blank">http://www.rasdaman.org/wiki/CodeGuide</a></i>"
: <br>
This code guide is good, but on my first pass, I can't see any
reference to testing processes. How do you verify that all code
is tested? Ideally reference continual integration or similar.<br>
<br>
* Link to <i><a href="http://rasdaman.org/browser/systemtest" target="_blank">http://rasdaman.org/browser/systemtest</a></i>
is broken. I'm looking for evidence of testing processes,
including unit testing, continuous integration, and a system
testing plan which is executed. <br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 29/04/2016 9:13 am, Bruce
Bannerman wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Hello Colleagues,<br>
<br>
</div>
Can I please get some indication that this motion has
been read, rather than stunned silence?<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>It has now been over a week since I initiated this
vote. I have not seen a single reply.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
<br>
@Jody,<br>
<br>
</div>
How long can a motion stay open before the vote is counted?
I vaguely recall that it was two weeks.<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
Bruce<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at
9:11 AM, Bruce Bannerman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bruce.bannerman.osgeo@gmail.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:bruce.bannerman.osgeo@gmail.com" target="_blank">bruce.bannerman.osgeo@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Take 2<br>
<br>
</div>
Dear Incubation Committee,<br>
<div>
<div><br>
After a long six years of effort, I'd
like to recommend that Rasdaman is ready
for graduation from the OSGeo Incubation
process.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>You will find the Incubation
Checklist at:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.rasdaman.org/wiki/OSGeoIncubationChecklist" target="_blank">http://www.rasdaman.org/wiki/OSGeoIncubationChecklist</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<div>I believe that the Rasdaman community
have met our requirements to graduate
from incubation.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>I have found the community to be
robust and very active attracting
contributors from many corners of the
globe.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>The project is attracting quite a bit
of interest, together with European
Union funding for additional development
that appears to be going into the open
source version of the product.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>I have also noted that Rasdaman Gmbh
is also moving some of their previously
proprietary capability into the open
source version.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Peter Bauman, the man behind Rasdaman
is also making very significant and
noteworthy contributions to the world of
open spatial standards through his work
within OGC and W3C Spatial Data on the
Web Working Group. Rasdaman is an OGC
Reference implementation of several WCS
related standards from memory.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>I do have a reservation though:<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>While I see that Rasdaman is meeting
the requirements of the OSGeo Incubation
process, I do feel that it is not
meeting the spirit of Incubation.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>As an example control of the project
is still tightly controlled around
Rasdaman GMbh:<br>
<br>
- Two of the three members of the
Rasdaman PSC are members of Rasdaman
Gmbh;<br>
</div>
<div>- Project technical design and
strategic directions are tightly
controlled and do not appear to be
openly discussed on public emailing
lists. Things 'just happen'; and<br>
</div>
<div>- The Rasdaman-PSC email list
contains no emails [1].<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>I do know of one or two attempts to
try to get public discussion going about
strategic technical direction, however I
did not see much activity related to it.
This is probably symptomatic of the lack
of a serious attempt at community
consultation on strategic and technical
design issues to date.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>My advice to the Rasdaman Community
is that for you to truly thrive as an
open source community, you will need to
look closely at this issue and address
it proactively. It is your project! <br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Bruce Bannerman<br>
</div>
<div>OSGeo Mentor for Rasdaman<br>
</div>
<div><br>
[1] <a href="https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21forum/rasdaman-psc" target="_blank">https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/rasdaman-psc</a>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
The checklist (<a href="http://www.rasdaman.org/wiki/OSGeoIncubationChecklist" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rasdaman.org/wiki/OSGeoIncubationChecklist" target="_blank">http://www.rasdaman.org/wiki/OSGeoIncubationChecklist</a>)
seems complete. The last communication
from Bruce was also positive, but did
not elicit a response from this
mailing list.<br>
<br>
I recommend Bruce invite
discussion/review of checklist and
prep a recommendation for graduation
(if he is comfortable doing so at this
time).<br>
<br>
--<br>
Jody Garnett<br>
<br>
On 21 April 2016 at 00:55, Peter
Baumann <<a href="mailto:p.baumann@jacobs-university.de" target="_blank">p.baumann@jacobs-university.de</a>>
wrote:<br>
Dear all,<br>
<br>
just a brief question, what are the
plans about rasdaman incubation?<br>
Last communication was 7 months ago,
and this April we had our 6th
anniversary<br>
of entering incubation.<br>
<br>
thanks for sharing your thoughts,<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
--<br>
Dr. Peter Baumann<br>
- Professor of Computer Science,
Jacobs University Bremen<br>
<a href="http://www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann" target="_blank">www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann</a><br>
mail: <a href="mailto:p.baumann@jacobs-university.de" target="_blank">p.baumann@jacobs-university.de</a><br>
tel: <a href="tel:%2B49-421-200-3178" value="+494212003178" target="_blank">+49-421-200-3178</a>,
fax: <a href="tel:%2B49-421-200-493178" value="+49421200493178" target="_blank">+49-421-200-493178</a><br>
- Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH
Bremen (HRB 26793)<br>
<a href="http://www.rasdaman.com" target="_blank">www.rasdaman.com</a>,
mail: <a href="mailto:baumann@rasdaman.com" target="_blank">baumann@rasdaman.com</a><br>
tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax:
0800-rasdafax, mobile: <a href="tel:%2B49-173-5837882" value="+491735837882" target="_blank">+49-173-5837882</a><br>
"Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit
hec peregrina epistola incertis ventis
dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur
ut ei reddatur cui soli destinata, nec
preripiat quisquam non sibi parata."
(mail disclaimer, AD 1083)<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Incubator mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Incubator@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Incubator@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
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</blockquote>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Cameron Shorter,
Software and Data Solutions Manager
LISAsoft
Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
P <a href="tel:%2B61%202%209009%205000" value="+61290095000" target="_blank">+61 2 9009 5000</a>, W <a href="http://www.lisasoft.com" target="_blank">www.lisasoft.com</a>, F <a href="tel:%2B61%202%209009%205099" value="+61290095099" target="_blank">+61 2 9009 5099</a></pre>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
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<a href="mailto:Incubator@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Incubator@lists.osgeo.org</a>
<a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre cols="80">--
Dr. Peter Baumann
- Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
<a href="http://www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann" target="_blank">www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann</a>
mail: <a href="mailto:p.baumann@jacobs-university.de" target="_blank">p.baumann@jacobs-university.de</a>
tel: <a href="tel:%2B49-421-200-3178" value="+494212003178" target="_blank">+49-421-200-3178</a>, fax: <a href="tel:%2B49-421-200-493178" value="+49421200493178" target="_blank">+49-421-200-493178</a>
- Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
<a href="http://www.rasdaman.com" target="_blank">www.rasdaman.com</a>, mail: <a href="mailto:baumann@rasdaman.com" target="_blank">baumann@rasdaman.com</a>
tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: <a href="tel:%2B49-173-5837882" value="+491735837882" target="_blank">+49-173-5837882</a>
"Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola incertis ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei reddatur cui soli destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi parata." (mail disclaimer, AD 1083)
</pre>
</div></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Incubator mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Incubator@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Incubator@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Incubator mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Incubator@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Incubator@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator</a></blockquote></div><div dir="ltr">-- <br></div><div dir="ltr">--<div>Jody Garnett</div></div>