<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Helvetica;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Helvetica;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Jed<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Providing overviews for the imagery will enable user to use the imagery in a lot more applications without the need and time to generate pyramids themselves.
Creating pyramids does require the whole image to be read. Hence if we do not provide then users often be forced to download the complete image vs just using it from S3. The lack of overviews will restrict user from access the imagery efficiently and so I
recommend that we do added as external .OVR files with deflate and factor 3. Doing this at the same time as the base tif files are created will be minimal additional processing in comparison to having to create them later. Having these as external .OVR files
will mean that users that do not need them, need not download them. Applications working with GDAL will be able to directly use them. This will significantly increase usability of the data. If users want to generate pyramids their own way they can always still
download and run a similar process.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Frank could you look to add this to the existing scripts and possibly apply to some samples.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> gdaladdo.exe -r average -ro --config COMPRESS_OVERVIEW DEFALTE --config USE_RRD NO --config PREDICTOR_OVERVIEW 2 --config TILED YES
<i>scene</i>.tif 3 9 27 81<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">_Peter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Sundwall, Jed [mailto:jsundwal@amazon.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 06, 2015 3:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Peter Becker<br>
<b>Cc:</b> landsat-pds@lists.osgeo.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Landsat-pds] Including Overviews<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’ve done the math, and we can certainly afford to take on an additional 13% of data volume over the next two years, but I’d like to take some more time to do research on demand for this. The approach we’ve taken so far has been to touch
the data as little as possible, and beyond the jpg thumbnails we produce, we aren’t creating any derivative products from the raw scenes.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In the meantime, any customer could produce these overlays themselves if they wanted to, but if we hear from multiple customers that they’re doing redundant work to do this, we'll consider adding overviews to this data set. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Open to others’ thoughts on this.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jed.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Feb 5, 2015, at 4:41 PM, Peter Becker <<a href="mailto:pbecker@esri.com">pbecker@esri.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Currently the scenes do not include any overviews. This forces applications to read the imagery at full resolution even if accessing at a small scale.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">It’s common to include overviews/pyramids/reduced resolution datasets with such imagery.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I would like to recommend that such overviews are included with the imagery<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Typically this would increase the file size by approx 33%, which is quite considerable.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The size of the overviews can be reduced by skipping a level (eg use level 4 8 16 32) vs 2 4 8 16 32, alternatively using a factor of 3 ie 3 9 27 81<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I tested this out on some images using Deflate with predictor 2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">2 4 8 16 32 adds about 35%<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">4 8 16 32 adds about 9%<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">3 9 27 81 adds about 13%<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">My recommendation is to go with the 3 9 27 81 factors. This keeps the factor constant between all levels.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Average sampling would be used, except for the BQA band for which Nearest (else Majority) should be used.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Implementation would only require adding GDALADDO to the existing script<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">We would also need to determine if we use internal or external overviews.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Internal overviews would increase the size of the files, but not change the directory structure.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Using external overviews (.tif.ovr) would add additional files to the directory, is more specific to GDAL.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">As I expect many users to be using GDAL to access these files, I would recommend that we use the external overviews. I don’t see the additional files as a burden.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">One other potential concern (and I’m hoping Frank can answer this) is the tile size of the overviews. GDAL appear to always use a tile size (BLOCKSIZE) of 128. It would be
more optimum if the file size could be set to 512.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">_Peter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">_______________________________________________<br>
Landsat-pds mailing list<br>
</span><a href="mailto:Landsat-pds@lists.osgeo.org"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:purple">Landsat-pds@lists.osgeo.org</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><br>
</span><a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/landsat-pds"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:purple">http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/landsat-pds</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>