<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><i>It would be much, much, much faster if someone wrote some glue between libLAS and GRASS (proposed here quite a while ago, but still not done <<a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/grass-dev/2008-May/037687.html" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(6, 88, 181); ">http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/grass-dev/2008-May/037687.html</a>>). I would guess it would be an order of magnitude faster to ingest data if you didn't have to go through text formats to do it.<br>
<br>And, for this LiDAR idiot. What is ground modeling?<br><br>Thanks,<br><br>Howard</i></span><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse;"><br>
</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse;">Ground Modeling is the process of taking the raw, ungrounded, recently calibrated LiDAR files, and applying a grounding algorithm that pulls default points into the ground class. The point is to separate the main two classes (1 Default, and 2 Ground) from each other, while limiting vegetation in the ground class that would normally appear in the DSM as opposed to the DEM (if they were to be created from the .las files). </span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; "><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; ">It's a little bit farther up the chain, but lends itself to pertinent in that any processed LiDAR file can be reverted back to "grounded" by setting all points back to default and applying another ground model suitable to the individuals preference.</span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; "><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; ">Aaron</span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; "><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; "><br>
</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse;">All </span><br></font><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 7:07 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:liblas-devel-request@lists.osgeo.org">liblas-devel-request@lists.osgeo.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Ground Modeling with RAW LiDAR and libLAS (Stuart Edwards)<br>
2. Re: Ground Modeling with RAW LiDAR and libLAS (francesco)<br>
3. Re: Ground Modeling with RAW LiDAR and libLAS (Howard Butler)<br>
4. Re: Ground Modeling with RAW LiDAR and libLAS (Stuart Edwards)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 09:05:09 -0500<br>
From: Stuart Edwards <<a href="mailto:sedwards2@cinci.rr.com">sedwards2@cinci.rr.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Liblas-devel] Ground Modeling with RAW LiDAR and libLAS<br>
To: francesco <<a href="mailto:francesco.pirotti@unipd.it">francesco.pirotti@unipd.it</a>><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org">liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:A32113F3-B8E1-4165-86EF-F33D6824193F@cinci.rr.com">A32113F3-B8E1-4165-86EF-F33D6824193F@cinci.rr.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>
<br>
GRASS GIS (open source) has several modules for processing raw LiDAR data and the ability to script your own classification routines. LibLAS does a nice job of preprocessing (decoding) the LAS files so they can be input to GRASS as x,y,z or general ASCII format .......see:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/LIDAR#Micro-tutorial" target="_blank">http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/LIDAR#Micro-tutorial</a><br>
Stu<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mar 4, 2011, at 1:31 AM, francesco wrote:<br>
<br>
> Hello List,<br>
> I just registered, hello to everyone.<br>
> Regarding Aaron's question, I am playing around with LibLAS to develop a ground classification procedure. It uses Axellson's progressive triangulation of local minimum points - but I am also looking at other solutions. Does anyone have other interesting approaches in mind?<br>
> Cheers,<br>
> Francesco<br>
> --<br>
> **************************************************<br>
> Francesco Pirotti<br>
> Dep. TESAF<br>
> CIRGEO – Interdepartmental Research Center on Cartography Photogrammetry<br>
> Remote Sensing and G.I.S.<br>
> University of Padova<br>
> Web: <a href="http://www.cirgeo.unipd.it/cirgeo/francescopirotti.htm" target="_blank">http://www.cirgeo.unipd.it/cirgeo/francescopirotti.htm</a><br>
> Email: <a href="mailto:francesco.pirotti@unipd.it">francesco.pirotti@unipd.it</a><br>
> Phone: +39 049 827 2710<br>
> Phone: +39 349 55 39 261<br>
> **************************************************<br>
><br>
><br>
> Il 04/03/2011 00:49, Aaron Reyna ha scritto:<br>
>><br>
>> Ah yes,<br>
>><br>
>> I'll try the MCC-LiDAR. Great, thanks for the suggestion!<br>
>><br>
>> Aaron<br>
>><br>
>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Peter Tittmann <<a href="mailto:pwtittmann@ucdavis.edu">pwtittmann@ucdavis.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
>> I've used MCC-Lidar <a href="http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mcclidar/" target="_blank">http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mcclidar/</a> a little with marginal results. Not a great answer but something. TeraScan <a href="http://www.terrasolid.fi/en/products/terrascan" target="_blank">http://www.terrasolid.fi/en/products/terrascan</a> is the elephant in that room.<br>
>><br>
>> Peter<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 03/03/2011 02:43 PM, Aaron Reyna wrote:<br>
>>> This may be too broad of a question, but has anyone seen or heard of a way to do efficient ground modeling with libLAS? That is, take raw LiDAR files (all default points) and model out the ground class? I do have raw LiDAR files if it helps.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Just throwing it out there.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Best,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Aaron<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Liblas-devel mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org">Liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/liblas-devel" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/liblas-devel</a><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Peter Tittmann<br>
>> Geography Graduate Group<br>
>> UC Davis<br>
>> c. 707 849 4135<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Liblas-devel mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org">Liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/liblas-devel" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/liblas-devel</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Liblas-devel mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org">Liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/liblas-devel" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/liblas-devel</a><br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 15:29:11 +0100<br>
From: francesco <<a href="mailto:francesco.pirotti@unipd.it">francesco.pirotti@unipd.it</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Liblas-devel] Ground Modeling with RAW LiDAR and libLAS<br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org">liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4D70F737.7000901@unipd.it">4D70F737.7000901@unipd.it</a>><br>
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<br>
I use GRASS quite a lot, but always thought that it would be slow on<br>
vector points. I know Brovelli and her team developed some modules, I'll<br>
check on that. Good idea to use LibLAS as "driver" to turn LAS to xyz.<br>
Francesco<br>
<br>
Il 04/03/2011 15:05, Stuart Edwards ha scritto:<br>
> GRASS GIS (open source) has several modules for processing raw LiDAR<br>
> data and the ability to script your own classification routines.<br>
> LibLAS does a nice job of preprocessing (decoding) the LAS files so<br>
> they can be input to GRASS as x,y,z or general ASCII format .......see:<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/LIDAR#Micro-tutorial" target="_blank">http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/LIDAR#Micro-tutorial</a><br>
> Stu<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Mar 4, 2011, at 1:31 AM, francesco wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Hello List,<br>
>> I just registered, hello to everyone.<br>
>> Regarding Aaron's question, I am playing around with LibLAS to<br>
>> develop a ground classification procedure. It uses Axellson's<br>
>> progressive triangulation of local minimum points - but I am also<br>
>> looking at other solutions. Does anyone have other interesting<br>
>> approaches in mind?<br>
>> Cheers,<br>
>> Francesco<br>
>> --<br>
>> **************************************************<br>
>> *Francesco Pirotti*<br>
>> Dep. TESAF<br>
>> CIRGEO – Interdepartmental Research Center on Cartography Photogrammetry<br>
>> Remote Sensing and G.I.S.<br>
>> University of Padova<br>
>> Web: <a href="http://www.cirgeo.unipd.it/cirgeo/francescopirotti.htm" target="_blank">http://www.cirgeo.unipd.it/cirgeo/francescopirotti.htm</a><br>
>> Email: <a href="mailto:francesco.pirotti@unipd.it">francesco.pirotti@unipd.it</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:francesco.pirotti@unipd.it">francesco.pirotti@unipd.it</a>><br>
>> Phone: +39 049 827 2710<br>
>> Phone: +39 349 55 39 261<br>
>> **************************************************<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Il 04/03/2011 00:49, Aaron Reyna ha scritto:<br>
>>> Ah yes,<br>
>>><br>
>>> I'll try the MCC-LiDAR. Great, thanks for the suggestion!<br>
>>><br>
>>> Aaron<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Peter Tittmann<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:pwtittmann@ucdavis.edu">pwtittmann@ucdavis.edu</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:pwtittmann@ucdavis.edu">pwtittmann@ucdavis.edu</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> I've used MCC-Lidar <a href="http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mcclidar/" target="_blank">http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mcclidar/</a> a<br>
>>> little with marginal results. Not a great answer but something.<br>
>>> TeraScan <a href="http://www.terrasolid.fi/en/products/terrascan" target="_blank">http://www.terrasolid.fi/en/products/terrascan</a> is the<br>
>>> elephant in that room.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Peter<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On 03/03/2011 02:43 PM, Aaron Reyna wrote:<br>
>>>> This may be too broad of a question, but has anyone seen or<br>
>>>> heard of a way to do efficient ground modeling with libLAS?<br>
>>>> That is, take raw LiDAR files (all default points) and model<br>
>>>> out the ground class? I do have raw LiDAR files if it helps.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Just throwing it out there.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Best,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Aaron<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Liblas-devel mailing list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:Liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org">Liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org">Liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org</a>><br>
>>>> <a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/liblas-devel" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/liblas-devel</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> Peter Tittmann<br>
>>> Geography Graduate Group<br>
>>> UC Davis<br>
>>> c. 707 849 4135<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Liblas-devel mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org">Liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/liblas-devel" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/liblas-devel</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Liblas-devel mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org">Liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org">Liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org</a>><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/liblas-devel" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/liblas-devel</a><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
**************************************************<br>
*Francesco Pirotti*<br>
Dep. TESAF<br>
CIRGEO – Interdepartmental Research Center on Cartography Photogrammetry<br>
Remote Sensing and G.I.S.<br>
University of Padova<br>
Web: <a href="http://www.cirgeo.unipd.it/cirgeo/francescopirotti.htm" target="_blank">http://www.cirgeo.unipd.it/cirgeo/francescopirotti.htm</a><br>
Email: <a href="mailto:francesco.pirotti@unipd.it">francesco.pirotti@unipd.it</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:francesco.pirotti@unipd.it">francesco.pirotti@unipd.it</a>><br>
Phone: +39 049 827 2710<br>
Phone: +39 349 55 39 261<br>
**************************************************<br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 08:27:55 -0600<br>
From: Howard Butler <<a href="mailto:hobu.inc@gmail.com">hobu.inc@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Liblas-devel] Ground Modeling with RAW LiDAR and libLAS<br>
To: francesco <<a href="mailto:francesco.pirotti@unipd.it">francesco.pirotti@unipd.it</a>><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org">liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:12A13103-AB6D-471B-BB55-5184A70C58D9@gmail.com">12A13103-AB6D-471B-BB55-5184A70C58D9@gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mar 4, 2011, at 8:29 AM, francesco wrote:<br>
<br>
> I use GRASS quite a lot, but always thought that it would be slow on vector points. I know Brovelli and her team developed some modules, I'll check on that. Good idea to use LibLAS as "driver" to turn LAS to xyz.<br>
<br>
It would be much, much, much faster if someone wrote some glue between libLAS and GRASS (proposed here quite a while ago, but still not done <<a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/grass-dev/2008-May/037687.html" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/grass-dev/2008-May/037687.html</a>>). I would guess it would be an order of magnitude faster to ingest data if you didn't have to go through text formats to do it.<br>
<br>
And, for this LiDAR idiot. What is ground modeling?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Howard<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 10:07:55 -0500<br>
From: Stuart Edwards <<a href="mailto:sedwards2@cinci.rr.com">sedwards2@cinci.rr.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Liblas-devel] Ground Modeling with RAW LiDAR and libLAS<br>
To: francesco <<a href="mailto:francesco.pirotti@unipd.it">francesco.pirotti@unipd.it</a>><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org">liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:0491F26F-08BF-4DCF-AF48-98D186F88A06@cinci.rr.com">0491F26F-08BF-4DCF-AF48-98D186F88A06@cinci.rr.com</a>><br>
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<br>
I don't find it to be particularly slow .... I guess it depends on how much processing you have to do. My uses are fairly limited so it's not a problem.<br>
<br>
Not quite on topic, but close, and something I'm trying to figure out -- the LibLAS decoded file can provide all of the point data - not just x,y,z. This includes identification of 1st and 2nd arrivals which helps a lot in discerning vegetal cover from the ground surface.<br>
<br>
However, if you are going to filter on arrival time to get a ground surface data set you have to eliminate the 1st arrivals - but only if there's a second. If a second is absent (no vegetation at that location) then the 1st becomes the 'last' too. This makes interpretation more complicated and not just a matter of separating the 1s and 2s. I ended up writing a short script in octave to split the data into two pools - first arrivals and true last arrivals using the simple notion that a 1 is only a first if it is followed by a 2. If not, it's a last.<br>
<br>
Has anyone else wrestled with this?<br>
<br>
Stu<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mar 4, 2011, at 9:29 AM, francesco wrote:<br>
<br>
> I use GRASS quite a lot, but always thought that it would be slow on vector points. I know Brovelli and her team developed some modules, I'll check on that. Good idea to use LibLAS as "driver" to turn LAS to xyz.<br>
> Francesco<br>
><br>
> Il 04/03/2011 15:05, Stuart Edwards ha scritto:<br>
>><br>
>> GRASS GIS (open source) has several modules for processing raw LiDAR data and the ability to script your own classification routines. LibLAS does a nice job of preprocessing (decoding) the LAS files so they can be input to GRASS as x,y,z or general ASCII format .......see:<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/LIDAR#Micro-tutorial" target="_blank">http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/LIDAR#Micro-tutorial</a><br>
>> Stu<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Mar 4, 2011, at 1:31 AM, francesco wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> Hello List,<br>
>>> I just registered, hello to everyone.<br>
>>> Regarding Aaron's question, I am playing around with LibLAS to develop a ground classification procedure. It uses Axellson's progressive triangulation of local minimum points - but I am also looking at other solutions. Does anyone have other interesting approaches in mind?<br>
>>> Cheers,<br>
>>> Francesco<br>
>>> --<br>
>>> **************************************************<br>
>>> Francesco Pirotti<br>
>>> Dep. TESAF<br>
>>> CIRGEO – Interdepartmental Research Center on Cartography Photogrammetry<br>
>>> Remote Sensing and G.I.S.<br>
>>> University of Padova<br>
>>> Web: <a href="http://www.cirgeo.unipd.it/cirgeo/francescopirotti.htm" target="_blank">http://www.cirgeo.unipd.it/cirgeo/francescopirotti.htm</a><br>
>>> Email: <a href="mailto:francesco.pirotti@unipd.it">francesco.pirotti@unipd.it</a><br>
>>> Phone: +39 049 827 2710<br>
>>> Phone: +39 349 55 39 261<br>
>>> **************************************************<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Il 04/03/2011 00:49, Aaron Reyna ha scritto:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Ah yes,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I'll try the MCC-LiDAR. Great, thanks for the suggestion!<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Aaron<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Peter Tittmann <<a href="mailto:pwtittmann@ucdavis.edu">pwtittmann@ucdavis.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>> I've used MCC-Lidar <a href="http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mcclidar/" target="_blank">http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mcclidar/</a> a little with marginal results. Not a great answer but something. TeraScan <a href="http://www.terrasolid.fi/en/products/terrascan" target="_blank">http://www.terrasolid.fi/en/products/terrascan</a> is the elephant in that room.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Peter<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On 03/03/2011 02:43 PM, Aaron Reyna wrote:<br>
>>>>> This may be too broad of a question, but has anyone seen or heard of a way to do efficient ground modeling with libLAS? That is, take raw LiDAR files (all default points) and model out the ground class? I do have raw LiDAR files if it helps.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Just throwing it out there.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Best,<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Aaron<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> Liblas-devel mailing list<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:Liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org">Liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
>>>>> <a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/liblas-devel" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/liblas-devel</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> --<br>
>>>> Peter Tittmann<br>
>>>> Geography Graduate Group<br>
>>>> UC Davis<br>
>>>> c. 707 849 4135<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Liblas-devel mailing list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:Liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org">Liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
>>>> <a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/liblas-devel" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/liblas-devel</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Liblas-devel mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org">Liblas-devel@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
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>><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> **************************************************<br>
> Francesco Pirotti<br>
> Dep. TESAF<br>
> CIRGEO – Interdepartmental Research Center on Cartography Photogrammetry<br>
> Remote Sensing and G.I.S.<br>
> University of Padova<br>
> Web: <a href="http://www.cirgeo.unipd.it/cirgeo/francescopirotti.htm" target="_blank">http://www.cirgeo.unipd.it/cirgeo/francescopirotti.htm</a><br>
> Email: <a href="mailto:francesco.pirotti@unipd.it">francesco.pirotti@unipd.it</a><br>
> Phone: +39 049 827 2710<br>
> Phone: +39 349 55 39 261<br>
> **************************************************<br>
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End of Liblas-devel Digest, Vol 39, Issue 2<br>
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