[Mapbender_dev] just ranting

[Seven (aka Arnulf)]

Christoph, Karim,
thanks for this. It is good to see this type of talk and enthusiasm - as 
Christoph pointed out - is a delicate thing. But this should not prevent 
us from saying what we think, even if it might feel a bit like stepping 
on others' toes.

Best regards,
Arnulf.


On 07/07/2010 11:41 PM, Christoph Baudson wrote:
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> Hi Karim, hi list,
>
> Karim Malhas wrote:
>> Dear List,
>>
>> I am getting frustrated: evertime I want to implement a teeny
>> bit of functionality I end up needing/wanting to rewrite the whole
>> thing because "every" function is written with one exact use case in
>> mind and can't be generally used. The code is also littered with
>> annoyances
>>
>> ( my current example:
>>
>>    map_obj.getExtent() returns a string of coordinates (just a
>>    comma seperated list without)
>>
>>    map_obj.getExtentInfo() OTOH returns  an Extent object
>>
>>    Why would they be named that way?
>> ).
>>
>>
>> Then there's what I mentioned at the devsprint (too many "object"-types
>> that have blurry definitions, too many different callback/events
>> types).
>>
>>
>> Everytime the I encounter something like that, the alternatives are
>> "rewrite" and "code around it" It usually ends up being "code around it"
>> which is, of course, a terrible idea because the next time someone
>> encounters _my_ code it will be even worse and so it builds up.
>>
>> But even if I chose "rewrite", what are the standards I'd be rewriting
>> by, I could make something up on the spot but our general direction is
>> fuzzy (or I haven't grokked it).
>
> Thinking there is a general direction in such a small project is a
> misconception. We are very much dependent on individuals at this stage.
> And any individual can have a huge impact on the project! The direction
> now (code-wise) is more or less the result of my struggle with the
> existing code. Of course it's flawed, but it's much better than it had been.
>
> Believe it or not, things have been much worse in the past. Now we are
> at least using libraries, we have coding standards, and the code is at
> least object-based, we are having regular coding sprints, the mailing
> list is busy, etc etc. The wheels are in motion.
>
> Remember that Mapbender has not been designed by computer scientists.
> When it was first released, no one was doing anything like Mapbender.
> And today, still no one does. It may not be easy to code for, but the
> software works, and is in wide use. A lot of projects have come and gone
> in the past years, but Mapbender has always been there.
>
> I can understand your concerns, but with Mapbender we have the chance to
> work for an established, well-used project with a unique and inspiring
> concept, which is imho way cooler than starting from scratch. And with
> you on board, we have enough skilled developers who are capable of
> taking over the code and improving it all we want. So let's talk about
> what we should improve, I'm open to all of your suggestions.
>
> Before you came to the project, I was ranting just like you do now, but
> that didn't help either, so my advice is save your energy for something
> better :-) We need to be both consequent and patient.
>
>> Spolsky say one should never do it [1] - but I am looking for someone to
>> lock myself in with for a day to try and distill what it is
>> that Mapbender does and then design a proper API on which a rewrite
>> could happen - any volunteers?
>
> Count me in. I would love to work on this.
>
>> The iterative approach we are using now to improve the code is not getting
>> anywhere nearly fast enough for me to retain any kind of enthusiasm and
>> - at times - sanity.
>
> Enthusiasm is a very delicate flower which is easily crushed. Let us
> know how we can nourish your enthusiasm. And I wouldn't go as far as
> talking about sanity, no piece of code is ever worth that.
>
>>
>>
>> On a related concept: I am unclear on the status of "Mapbender 3"
>> It's a branch with little activity and no documentation, I am assuming I
>> missed a discussion somwehere, so If someone could fill me in that'd be
>> rad.
>
> It's more or less a branch which follows these concepts
> - - there are no static pages, everything is an application (like login,
> application list, etc)
> - - there are public users and default applications
> - - all files not requested via HTTP have been removed from the http folder
>
> It hasn't been merged recently with trunk, and I doubt we will. Maybe we
> should consider the current branch just an experiment, from which we can
> learn. I think the concepts are good, but should be executed more
> consequently. Maybe the time has not been right then.
>
> Anyway I'm open to all suggestions, keep them coming. At least my
> enthusiasm for the project has grown over the past year... :-)
>
> Christoph
>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Karim
>>
>> [1] http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html
>>
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>>
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