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<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: [mapguide-dev] Metadata</TITLE>
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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I was thinking that you could have a superset database
model, and then the site could choose whether to use the FGDC subset, the ISO
subset, or a personalised subset that meets internal needs. This could be
done on the database level with something like:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>MetadataSchemas</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> SchemaID, Name</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> 1, FGDC</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> 2, ISO</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> 5, CityOfNanaimo</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>MetadataElements</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> ElementID, Name</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> 1, Organisation</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> 2, Contact</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> 3, Description</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> 4, Scale</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> 5, Source Path</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> 6, MapGuide Layer Resource ID</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN
class=835053422-19092006></SPAN> </DIV></SPAN></DIV></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>MetadataSchemasToElements</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> SchemaID, ElementID, Required</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> 1, 1, True</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> 1, 2, True</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> 1, 3, True</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> 1, 4, False</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> 4, 1, True</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> 4, 2. True</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> 4, 3, True</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> 4, 6, True</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Then the organisation could easily flip a switch to choose
which schema to use, or build their own.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>As far as translating between them... I was thinking
interoperability. In Canada we're more likely to use the ISO standard than
FGDC (though hopefully there will be some kind of convergence there) but it
would also be desirable to be able to provide FGDC metadata when sharing data on
cross-border initiatives. For geospatial portals there would be a benefit
to maintaining the attributes required for both and being able to output either
based on the request parameters. Also, for MapGuide hosting providers,
there will be a need to be able to provide metadata services in the format
requested by their clients. Maybe I'm thinking too far ahead, or for a
need that isn't there but...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Jason</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=835053422-19092006><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Carsten Hess
[mailto:carsten.hess@autodesk.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 19, 2006
15:02<BR><B>To:</B> dev@mapguide.osgeo.org;
dev@mapguide.osgeo.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [mapguide-dev]
Metadata<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Jason,</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>ah this is indeed an interesting read - I haven't look at that yet at all.
Thanks for pointing it out.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>When I looked at metadata I mainly focused on FGDC and ISO and there simply
doesn't seem to be a true common metadata storage we could do that we translate
to the different standards. Both of them have fields that are required the other
standard doesn't seem to have. So ... a common metadata storage would have to
have even more required fields (and frankly there are already too many if you
ask me). </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>So the way I was looking at this is to use XSL stylesheets to convert
between the two standards if we really need to. </DIV>
<DIV>Honestly though I doubt we do ... I think whoever sets up a data repository
will work in one standard and rather have all metadata in the same standard. I
don't really see where a MapGuide site needs to be more then one standard at a
time. <BR></DIV>
<DIV>Then there are benefits of storing the native standards format: We can make
use of the tools around it (e.g. the FGDC compiler to verify compliant FGDC) and
often people already have written some code to create the standards they need
from files or at least help it. Being able to just upload the standard files
into MapGuide seems like a great way to use these tools.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>At the same time it is pretty clear that different sites want different
standards and if a site does support one standard they want it all the way and
not some subset of it.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>If I were to dream it would be great to see multiple API's ontop of the one
I added, one for ISO and one for FGDC and when you create your mapguide site you
use one API or the other. </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Ultimately I think full compliance is what most people really will want. I
have not heard or seen anyone yet trying to convert between different standards,
have you?</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Cheers,</DIV>
<DIV> Carsten </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT size=2>-----Original Message----- <BR><B>From:</B> Jason Birch
[mailto:Jason.Birch@nanaimo.ca] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Tue 9/19/2006 4:28 PM
<BR><B>To:</B> dev@mapguide.osgeo.org <BR><B>Cc:</B> <BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:
[mapguide-dev] Metadata<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=115032620-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>As an addendum, this page is an interesting
read:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=115032620-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=115032620-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><A
href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/Geodata_Metadata_Requirements">http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/Geodata_Metadata_Requirements</A></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=115032620-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=115032620-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>... though it doesn't speak to ISO metadata standards at
all.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=115032620-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=115032620-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Jason</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Jason Birch [@nanaimo.ca]
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:57<BR><B>To:</B>
dev@mapguide.osgeo.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [mapguide-dev]
Metadata<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=478455617-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>It sounds like you've given this considerable thought,
which is reassuring :)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=478455617-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=478455617-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>In my ideal world, metadata would be modelled using
the superset of entities and attributes required by the ISO and FGDC
standards, with the potential to be expanded to cover other elements that are
required but not present in these standards. From this model, you would
not rely on the standards other than to define the required elements for
each schema. You could also allow organisations to define their own
profiles; subsets of required elements that cover their internal business
needs. These would all be entered through a common interface, and could
then be output via something akin to an XSLT transformation or database
views that formats them into the desired standard XML output, which could
in turn be transformed into HTML for display.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=478455617-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=478455617-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>The data could also be accessed by
various transport-level services, such as </FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=478455617-19092006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>CSW (<A
href="http://www.opengeospatial.org/standards/cat">http://www.opengeospatial.org/standards/cat</A>)
or Z39.50 and its successor SRU/SRW (<A
href="http://www.loc.gov/standards/">http://www.loc.gov/standards/</A>), as
well as front end applications such as a spatial discovery portal akin to
ESRI's Geography Network or a simple Google-like plain text
query.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=478455617-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=478455617-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>The main benefits of this
approach are:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=478455617-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>- support all standards without forcing the client to
choose one or the other</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=478455617-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>- avoid having to implement a new data
entry/storage/display framework for each standard</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=478455617-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>- leverage strengths of a relational model for
maintaining common attributes such as organisation and person contact
details</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=478455617-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=478455617-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>This will also remove a disincentive to marriage, thus
strengthening family values. (I don't want to change my name, because
I'm going to have to go through and update all of my contact details in the
metadata). :)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=478455617-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=478455617-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I don't see this as orthogonal to the current design
path, but I don't know that it's entirely in alignment either.
Your implementation provides a storage mechanism for metadata, and my
ideal would be to provide a metadata service. Perhaps these could
be combined somehow, by making resources types for each of the metadata tables
(MetadataOrganisation, MetadataPerson, MetadataPhone, etc) and then using the
calls that you have provided to return a resource-specific aggregation
of these metadata resources, formatted in the well known
XML standard of choice ???</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=478455617-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=478455617-19092006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Jason</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>