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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Thomas, Ian,<br>
<br>
Thanks for that, it fills in a lot of background. It also
indicates that we probably need work done to support Hindi that I
was not aware of. So opening a ticket to track this in mapserver
is appropriate.<br>
<br>
That article also implies that HarfBuzz is still not complete so
we might be trying to deal with a moving target, but at 90%
complete it might be better than what we have now if it is
reasonable stable.<br>
<br>
-Steve<br>
<br>
On 4/5/2013 9:50 AM, thomas bonfort wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAOM3y2jUaANKX8z+iAjQFdgE5+Bt9_jTBXGG2j0mqg+UtyXrfg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://behdad.org/text/">http://behdad.org/text/</a> is
a good read if you haven't already stumbled upon it.<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>--</div>
<div style="">thomas</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 5 April 2013 15:45, Ian Walberg <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ian.walberg@airborne.aero" target="_blank">ian.walberg@airborne.aero</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Steve,<br>
<br>
I will raise an issue to track this and we will be looking
into it in more detail.<br>
<br>
From the research we have done so far I am not sure that it
is an issue with fribidi as my understanding that this just
addresses the l->r and r->l ordering issues.<br>
<br>
What we believe is that the mapserver text rendering
pipeline cannot support the more complex character layouts
required in some cases for Hinidi and other languages.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
Ian<br>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mapserver-dev-bounces@lists.osgeo.org">mapserver-dev-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mapserver-dev-bounces@lists.osgeo.org">mapserver-dev-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Stephen Woodbridge<br>
Sent: Friday, April 05, 2013 5:56 AM<br>
To: mapserver-dev<br>
Cc: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mapserver-users@lists.osgeo.org">mapserver-users@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [mapserver-dev] [mapserver-users] Rendering
Hindi Characters<br>
<br>
Ian,<br>
<br>
As I mentioned before, I think this is an issue with
fribidi or the font that you are using. I have seen
nothing that indicates that this is a mapserver problem
other than the implied suggestion that maybe mapserver
should find a different library to solve this issue.<br>
<br>
Did you post this issue on the fribidi list?<br>
Did you post the response back here?<br>
<br>
I saw that you tried the text in other windows products
and it works. I can appreciate your frustration with
this fact, but this does not in itself mean the
mapserver is broken. We rely on fribidi and the selected
font to generate the correct glyphs for rendering. If
the gylphs are not rendered correctly there are a few
possibilities:<br>
<br>
1. a bug in mapserver - not likely as we have plenty of
working examples using multiple other languages 2. a
bug/limitation in fribidi 3. a font file with missing or
broken glyphs.<br>
<br>
In most cases of rendering problems that we have seen to
date have been problems with fonts. The fribidi list has
been helpful identifying good fonts for specific
languages.<br>
<br>
If you want to file a bug on the mapserver site, goto <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://mapserver.org/"
target="_blank">http://mapserver.org/</a> and follow
the link on the top right of the page to the issue
tracker. You will need to supply a test case that
demonstrates the problem and some graphics so non hindi
readers can see what is bad and what is expected.<br>
<br>
Without some more clear evidence that this is a
mapserver problem, I'm not sure this will get much
action.<br>
<br>
I am sympathetic, as I ran into a similar issue with
Arabic a few years ago and had to do this whole dance
with fribidi to understand the issues and identify a
font that resolved the issues.<br>
<br>
-Steve W<br>
<br>
On 4/4/2013 11:12 AM, Ian Walberg wrote:<br>
> Folks,<br>
><br>
> Added the dev list, how do I raise a ticket on
this?<br>
><br>
> Thanks<br>
><br>
> Ian<br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mapserver-users-bounces@lists.osgeo.org">mapserver-users-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
> [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mapserver-users-bounces@lists.osgeo.org">mapserver-users-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Ian<br>
> Walberg<br>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 2:34 PM<br>
> To: Stephen Woodbridge; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mapserver-users@lists.osgeo.org">mapserver-users@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [mapserver-users] Rendering Hindi
Characters<br>
><br>
> Hello again list,<br>
><br>
> The Hindi rendering problem has come to the top of
our priorities again and we have been investigating the
cause of the issue again.<br>
><br>
> To recap the problem we are seeing can be
reproduced easily, paste Mexico City into google
translate and then use the Hindi characters with any
Unicode font.<br>
><br>
> The top (incorrect) line of text is from mapserver
and lower<br>
> (correct) line is from Excel in this image <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://tinyurl.com/cs7pax5" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/cs7pax5</a><br>
><br>
> From the research we have done freetype does not
know how to render all of these characters together
correctly. It does appear that pango can be configured
to render them correctly.<br>
><br>
> I have not yet dived into the details of the
rendering pipeline and I hope that someone can jump in
and confirm we have a real issue and there is not
something stupid we have done.<br>
><br>
> Many thanks<br>
><br>
> Ian<br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mapserver-users-bounces@lists.osgeo.org">mapserver-users-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
> [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mapserver-users-bounces@lists.osgeo.org">mapserver-users-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Stephen<br>
> Woodbridge<br>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 5:06 PM<br>
> To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mapserver-users@lists.osgeo.org">mapserver-users@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [mapserver-users] Rendering Hindi
Characters<br>
><br>
> FYI, Mapserver does not do anything for rendering
text except:<br>
><br>
> 1. pass the text to fribidi which converts a utf8
sequence of characters into a "displayable" sequence of
characters.<br>
><br>
> 2. mapserver then passes that to the text rendering
function of whatever renderer you are using.<br>
><br>
> Mapserver does not try to understand it, it totally
relies on the underlying rendering code to do the right
thing whatever that is.<br>
><br>
> Thomas Bonfort might have some more insight into
this as he re-engineer a lot of the rendering pipeline
and it might be helpful to know what code is doing the
actual text rendering. It used to be freetype and may
still be.<br>
><br>
> I'm also not convinced the fribidi is not the right
place for this to happen regardless as it is responsible
for taking a sequence of characters and generating an
"displayable" sequence that can be rendered correctly
given the correct font.<br>
><br>
> -Steve<br>
><br>
> On 1/23/2013 7:17 PM, Mr. Puneet Kishor wrote:<br>
>> Peter,<br>
>><br>
>> My guru in all things Hindi fonts tells me that
the problem lies at the level where encodings are
converted into font renderings. Apparently, र् ट is a
perfectly correct alternate rendering of the unicode,
just not Correct (with a capital C). I have no idea
where this happens with MapServer. Thankfully I've never
had to create a map with Hindi labels (I would be
curious to learn, perhaps off-list, who wants to see
maps with Hindi labels), but I too would like to see
this resolved.<br>
>><br>
>> Hope someone knowledgable chimes in.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Jan 23, 2013, at 3:58 PM, "Mr. Puneet
Kishor" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:punk.kish@gmail.com">punk.kish@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> (adding the list back to cc so brains
better than mine may help)<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Jan 23, 2013, at 3:47 PM, "Peter Mallen"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:peter.mallen@airborne.aero">peter.mallen@airborne.aero</a>>
wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>>> Hi Puneet,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I have passed the codes you have
provided into MapServer (U+0930 U+094D U+091F ) and it
displays the characters separately, not as one
character.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> This is how Map Server displays it: र्
ट<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> hmmm... well, then this is definitely above
my pay grade. Seems like you are doing the right thing,
but my guess is MapServer's Unicode implementation is
not working properly.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I don't see any mention of Unicode on
mapserver docs page. The only<br>
>>> potentially relevant bit I see is<br>
>>> (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.mapserver.org/installation/unix.html#obtaining-the-neces"
target="_blank">http://www.mapserver.org/installation/unix.html#obtaining-the-neces</a><br>
>>> s<br>
>>> ary-software) that libgd should be compiled
against the iconv<br>
>>> library which provides full support for
Unicode. On my MBA I get<br>
>>><br>
>>> $ ~ > gdlib-config --libs<br>
>>> -lXpm -lX11 -ljpeg -lfontconfig
-lfreetype -lpng -lz -liconv<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>> Thank You,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Peter Mallen<br>
>>>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>>>> From: Mr. Puneet Kishor [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:punk.kish@gmail.com">punk.kish@gmail.com</a>]<br>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 3:36
PM<br>
>>>> To: Peter Mallen<br>
>>>> Subject: Re: [mapserver-users]
Rendering Hindi Characters<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Jan 23, 2013, at 3:00 PM, "Peter
Mallen" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:peter.mallen@airborne.aero">peter.mallen@airborne.aero</a>>
wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>> Hi Puneet,<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I did try feeding MapServer the
correct Unicode characters, and it did fix the
characters using what I believe is called the "Reph"
symbol (ि) but I could not get the conjunct consonants
to display correctly.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I have no idea what the above means
;-), but, did you try passing<br>
>>>> U+0930 U+094D U+091F to MapServer? See<br>
>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0900.pdf"
target="_blank">http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0900.pdf</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> U+0930 -> र -> r<br>
>>>> U+094D -> ् -> "halves" the
previously typed r 091F -> ट -> thick<br>
</div>
</div>
>>>> U+t sound<br>
<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5">>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>>> Also, I have posted on the fribidi
list and I believe it does only help with bidirectional
languages, but I could be wrong.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Thank You,<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Peter Mallen<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>>>>> From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mapserver-users-bounces@lists.osgeo.org">mapserver-users-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
>>>>> [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mapserver-users-bounces@lists.osgeo.org">mapserver-users-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Mr.<br>
>>>>> Puneet Kishor<br>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013
12:27 PM<br>
>>>>> To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mapserver-users@lists.osgeo.org">mapserver-users@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [mapserver-users]
Rendering Hindi Characters<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On Jan 23, 2013, at 12:17 PM,
Stephen Woodbridge <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:woodbri@swoodbridge.com">woodbri@swoodbridge.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>> On 1/23/2013 2:20 PM, Peter
Mallen wrote:<br>
>>>>>>> Hello Everyone,<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> I am having issues
rendering certain Hindi characters. I am<br>
>>>>>>> using<br>
>>>>>>> UTF-8 encoding.<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> When attempting to display
the following Hindi character in<br>
>>>>>>> MapServer: र्ट<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> It is rendered in MapServer
as the following two characters: र्<br>
>>>>>>> ट<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> I believe these characters
form what is called a conjunct<br>
>>>>>>> consonant, of which there
appear to be thousands of and most of<br>
>>>>>>> them do not render using
MapServer.<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> Also, It appears that
MapServer is having an issue displaying<br>
>>>>>>> these conjunct consonants
and wants to display these characters<br>
>>>>>>> separately rather than to
form them as one combined character.<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> Here is a link describing
more about the Devanagari alphabet:<br>
>>>>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.omniglot.com/writing/devanagari.htm"
target="_blank">http://www.omniglot.com/writing/devanagari.htm</a><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> Can anyone please help with
this?<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> Thank You,<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> Peter Mallen<br>
>>>>>> Hi Peter,<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> I can not speak to this
specific problem but I can give you and overview.
Mapserver uses fribidi library for rending this data and
I know from working with Arabic that a lot depends on
the font you are using, in additional to the
capabilities and version of fribidi library.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Isn't fribidi specifically for
bidirectional languages? Hindi is strictly LTR.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>> This kind of question is
probably best asked on the fribidi list as they will
know more about what is supported or not for any given
language and they might be able to point you to a better
font.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.fribidi.org/" target="_blank">http://www.fribidi.org/</a><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> You should probably make sure
you are using a recent version of the library like
0.19.2 or better and be aware the 0.19.5 was released in
Dec 2012.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Peter, I forget where you and I
left our off-list conversation re. the issues you were
having with rendering Devnagari. Did you try feeding
MapServer the correct Unicode characters?<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Hope you figure this out.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> --<br>
>>>>> Puneet Kishor<br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> mapserver-users mailing list<br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mapserver-users@lists.osgeo.org">mapserver-users@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
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href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapserver-users"
target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapserver-users</a><br>
>><br>
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</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
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