<div dir="ltr"><div>Hello,</div><div><br></div><div>From my point of view, I agree mostly with Jeff. Having both deprecated and added version is interesting even if we are using an older (or later) version of MS. I understand Even position though and may be we should remove too old deprecated version 4.x and 5.x are so old. 6.x release are probably still widely used.</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you all!</div><div><br></div><div>Y.<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le ven. 19 mars 2021 à 00:31, Jeff McKenna <<a href="mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com">jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com</a>> a écrit :<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The user also wants to see ALL possibilities, not necessarily just for a <br>
specific version. I know, software devs think a user just needs to know <br>
what is available for that version that the user has installed, but <br>
actually the user wants to know what is possible, and when it was added, <br>
and then adjust the installation method if needed.<br>
<br>
I just see this as a typical difference in how software developers think <br>
versus how a user thinks, and I don't mean this in a bad way, I just <br>
think, from my experience, this is the constant challenge in managing <br>
software (and why the person writing the code should never be the one <br>
who documents it).<br>
<br>
-jeff<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2021-03-18 8:25 p.m., Jeff McKenna wrote:<br>
> I also think here we have a difference between how a core developer <br>
> works (on main, building from source) and then how a typical software <br>
> user works (using a binary/package built by someone else, often a much <br>
> older MapServer version), so those one-line notes of version added <br>
> (which is absolutely irrelevant to a core developer who uses the latest <br>
> source each day) become what I would call a total "lifeline" to a user, <br>
> so they can know what parameters work with their old installed package.<br>
> <br>
> -jeff<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On 2021-03-18 8:18 p.m., Jeff McKenna wrote:<br>
>> As a user I'm constantly relying on those 'added in 5.0' notes, this <br>
>> is the information that a user needs and craves in the actual user <br>
>> document (not separate deep in an RFC document). I see these version <br>
>> notes (a single line that is nicely color coded often) as always <br>
>> relevant, as users need to know when a parameter was added (and <br>
>> especially those ones that aren't always fresh & mentioned, such as <br>
>> old 5.0 ones etc).<br>
>><br>
>> -jeff<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 2021-03-18 7:23 p.m., Even Rouault wrote:<br>
>>> My point was too much (no longer relevant) information kills <br>
>>> information. For the user of Mapserver 7.6, what's the point in <br>
>>> seeing some feature was added in 4.0 or removed in 5.2 ? That just <br>
>>> adds to the cognitive load. It might be useful though to see that <br>
>>> something was added / removed recently and you don't benefit yet from <br>
>>> it or are dependent on it.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Le 18/03/2021 à 23:17, Richard Greenwood a écrit :<br>
>>>> As a guy who has been reading the mapserv docs for 20+ years I'll <br>
>>>> say that I love the format of the docs in general and specifically <br>
>>>> the version added, version deprecated, etc. Thanks Jeff and all the <br>
>>>> other contributors. Hopefully I'll be reading the docs for another <br>
>>>> 20 years.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Rich<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 3:18 PM Jeff McKenna <br>
>>>> <<a href="mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com" target="_blank">jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com</a> <br>
>>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com" target="_blank">jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Ah ok Even, your words sunk into me more now, good points. <br>
>>>> Although I<br>
>>>> differ in that I think keeping all of the 'versionadded'<br>
>>>> references are<br>
>>>> very important, as this is the rich information that is so <br>
>>>> priceless<br>
>>>> (knowing when exactly something was added) for both the users and<br>
>>>> maintainers of the software/docs. I personally have been making<br>
>>>> sure to<br>
>>>> add those 'versionadded' and 'deprecated since' and 'since version'<br>
>>>> notes into the docs, as this information is so useful to users,<br>
>>>> even in<br>
>>>> the case of it being added in 5.0 etc. And as you said, I have <br>
>>>> to go<br>
>>>> get that information in the RFC, which users won't know to <br>
>>>> check, so<br>
>>>> I've been adding those 'since version' references that you<br>
>>>> mention, to<br>
>>>> help users.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> -jeff<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On 2021-03-18 5:39 p.m., Even Rouault wrote:<br>
>>>> > If we keep a single version for simplicity, we could however<br>
>>>> decide to<br>
>>>> > clean up a bit the doc content to remove mentions of outdated<br>
>>>> versions<br>
>>>> > to avoid cluttering it. There is little point in mentioning any<br>
>>>> version<br>
>>>> > older than let's say 5? years ago. I've done that a bit in the<br>
>>>> GDAL docs<br>
>>>> > a few months ago, removing any mention of GDAL < 2, considering<br>
>>>> that all<br>
>>>> > people looking at the docs would have at least GDAL 2.x something<br>
>>>> > available, or if they use antiquated stuff, too bad for them.<br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> > Looking a bit at download artifacts, for MapServer we could<br>
>>>> decide for<br>
>>>> > example that the baseline is MapServer 6.4 (or possibly even 7.0<br>
>>>> for<br>
>>>> > simplicity), and remove any mention of that or older versions<br>
>>>> (except in<br>
>>>> > RFCs that are reflective of history)<br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> > "grep -r versionadded en" in the doc repository shows a number<br>
>>>> of things<br>
>>>> > of the 4.x, 5.x or early 6.x eras. 'grep -ri "since version"<br>
>>>> en' shows<br>
>>>> > also a number of potential cleanups.<br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> > Even<br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> > Le 18/03/2021 à 21:15, Jeff McKenna a écrit :<br>
>>>> >> My preference has always been for Option#1, as it is much<br>
>>>> easier to<br>
>>>> >> maintain in my experience, as it is stated clearly as<br>
>>>> deprecated at<br>
>>>> >> the parameter level in the document.<br>
>>>> >><br>
>>>> >> Speaking openly here, if I was paid fulltime to manage the docs<br>
>>>> and<br>
>>>> >> all the different build versions of the docs, and publishing <br>
>>>> them<br>
>>>> >> online, I could see how that would be possible; but as we are<br>
>>>> made up<br>
>>>> >> of volunteers, I would prefer to keep the single version<br>
>>>> updated with<br>
>>>> >> references to when the feature was added (what MapServer<br>
>>>> version), and<br>
>>>> >> if it is deprecated. I remember recently spending much effort<br>
>>>> on that<br>
>>>> >> in-line versioning improvements, I think that is working nicely<br>
>>>> now.<br>
>>>> >><br>
>>>> >> -jeff<br>
>>>> >><br>
>>>> >><br>
>>>> >><br>
>>>> >><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> -- Jeff McKenna<br>
>>>> GatewayGeo: Developers of MS4W, MapServer Consulting and Training<br>
>>>> co-founder of FOSS4G<br>
>>>> <a href="http://gatewaygeo.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://gatewaygeo.com/</a> <<a href="http://gatewaygeo.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://gatewaygeo.com/</a>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> mapserver-dev mailing list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:mapserver-dev@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">mapserver-dev@lists.osgeo.org</a> <br>
>>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mapserver-dev@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">mapserver-dev@lists.osgeo.org</a>><br>
>>>> <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapserver-dev" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapserver-dev</a><br>
>>>> <<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapserver-dev" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapserver-dev</a>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> -- <br>
>>>> Richard W. Greenwood, PLS<br>
>>>> <a href="http://www.greenwoodmap.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.greenwoodmap.com</a> <<a href="http://www.greenwoodmap.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.greenwoodmap.com</a>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> mapserver-dev mailing list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:mapserver-dev@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">mapserver-dev@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
>>>> <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapserver-dev" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapserver-dev</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> -- <br>
>>> <a href="http://www.spatialys.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.spatialys.com</a><br>
>>> My software is free, but my time generally not.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> mapserver-dev mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:mapserver-dev@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">mapserver-dev@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
>>> <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapserver-dev" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapserver-dev</a><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
> <br>
> <br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Jeff McKenna<br>
GatewayGeo: Developers of MS4W, MapServer Consulting and Training<br>
co-founder of FOSS4G<br>
<a href="http://gatewaygeo.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://gatewaygeo.com/</a><br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Yves Jacolin</div><div>Training and support manager - Team Manager<br>Camptocamp<br><br>Tel (France) : +33 4 58 48 20 43<br>Tel (Switzerland) : +41 21 619 10 43<br>Mob. : +33 6 18 75 42 21<br><br>email : <a href="mailto:yves.jacolin@camptocamp.com" target="_blank">yves.jacolin@camptocamp.com</a><br><a href="http://www.camptocamp.com" target="_blank">http://www.camptocamp.com</a></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>