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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">So no need for the
</span><span lang="EN-US">“opaque container” that is actually kind of a hack in Geoserver. In WMS normal layers must have names, this is from WMS 1.3.0 standard:</span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><br>
7.2.4.6.3 Name<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">If, and only if, a layer has a <Name>, then it is a map layer that can be requested by using that Name in the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">LAYERS parameter of a GetMap request. A Layer that contains a <Name> element is referred to as a “named<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">layer” in this International Standard. If the layer has a Title but no Name, then that layer is only a category title for<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">all the layers nested within. A server that advertises a Layer containing a Name element shall be able to accept<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">that Name as the value of LAYERS argument in a GetMap request and return the corresponding map. A client<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">shall not attempt to request a layer that has a Title but no Name.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">There is something documented about the layer names in
<a href="https://mapserver.gis.umn.edu/ogc/wms_server.html">https://mapserver.gis.umn.edu/ogc/wms_server.html</a> but not really that the rules apply also if layer belongs to a group:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">“Layer Name and wms_title metadata:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Every individual layer needs its own unique name and title. Layer names are also used in GetMap and GetFeatureInfo requests to refer to layers that should be included in the map output
and in the query. Layer names must start with a letter when setting up a WMS server (layer names should not start with a digit or have spaces in them).”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">-Jukka Rahkonen-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Lähettäjä:</b> Richard Greenwood <richard.greenwood@gmail.com>
<br>
<b>Lähetetty:</b> maanantai 29. elokuuta 2022 13.40<br>
<b>Vastaanottaja:</b> Rahkonen Jukka <jukka.rahkonen@maanmittauslaitos.fi><br>
<b>Kopio:</b> Seth G <sethg@geographika.co.uk>; MapServer Devs <mapserver-dev@lists.osgeo.org><br>
<b>Aihe:</b> Re: [MapServer-dev] Possibly undocumented 8.0 change<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">No, just laziness. It's not a big deal, but maybe should be documented. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Aug 29, 2022, 11:58 AM Rahkonen Jukka <<a href="mailto:jukka.rahkonen@maanmittauslaitos.fi">jukka.rahkonen@maanmittauslaitos.fi</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Hi Richard,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Is your aim with using GROUP without NAME to hide the layer from GetCapabilities so that users cannot see or request that layer separately but only as a member
of a group? Like “opaque container” in Geoserver <a href="https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.geoserver.org%2Flatest%2Fen%2Fuser%2Fdata%2Fwebadmin%2Flayergroups.html&data=05%7C01%7Cjukka.rahkonen%40maanmittauslaitos.fi%7C4e29f6da035b41ae58da08da89aace2d%7Cc4f8a63255804a1c92371d5a571b71fa%7C0%7C0%7C637973663938909073%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=fqqIU8Ul9FjwpjHXKlWjAMqT9OGaL7oLQFLdoKnjxto%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">
https://docs.geoserver.org/latest/en/user/data/webadmin/layergroups.html</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">-Jukka Rahkonen-</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>Lähettäjä:</b> Seth G <<a href="mailto:sethg@geographika.co.uk" target="_blank">sethg@geographika.co.uk</a>>
<br>
<b>Lähetetty:</b> maanantai 29. elokuuta 2022 10.45<br>
<b>Vastaanottaja:</b> Richard Greenwood <<a href="mailto:richard.greenwood@gmail.com" target="_blank">richard.greenwood@gmail.com</a>>; Rahkonen Jukka <<a href="mailto:jukka.rahkonen@maanmittauslaitos.fi" target="_blank">jukka.rahkonen@maanmittauslaitos.fi</a>><br>
<b>Kopio:</b> MapServer Devs <<a href="mailto:mapserver-dev@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">mapserver-dev@lists.osgeo.org</a>><br>
<b>Aihe:</b> Re: [MapServer-dev] Possibly undocumented 8.0 change<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Hi Richard,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Could you create an issue for this on GitHub?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">It looks like it could relate to the move to C++.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Seth<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">--<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">web:<a href="https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgeographika.net%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cjukka.rahkonen%40maanmittauslaitos.fi%7C4e29f6da035b41ae58da08da89aace2d%7Cc4f8a63255804a1c92371d5a571b71fa%7C0%7C0%7C637973663938909073%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=DS8KRO6ZFREovCqteYci3oD%2B9sDxjv2TTCHbANGJJaI%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://geographika.net</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">twitter: @geographika<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Mon, Aug 29, 2022, at 9:34 AM, Richard Greenwood wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">An empty string for the NAME works without error. I set the MS_DEBUGLEVEL to 5 and nothing is written to the error file when this error occurs.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 12:44 AM Rahkonen Jukka <<a href="mailto:jukka.rahkonen@maanmittauslaitos.fi" target="_blank">jukka.rahkonen@maanmittauslaitos.fi</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal"><span lang="EN-US">What happens if you use an empty NAME?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal"><span lang="EN-US">-Jukka Rahkonen-</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>Lähettäjä:</b> MapServer-dev <<a href="mailto:mapserver-dev-bounces@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">mapserver-dev-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a>>
<b>Puolesta </b>Richard Greenwood<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>Lähetetty:</b> maanantai 29. elokuuta 2022 9.06<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>Vastaanottaja:</b> Seth G <<a href="mailto:sethg@geographika.co.uk" target="_blank">sethg@geographika.co.uk</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>Kopio:</b> MapServer Devs <<a href="mailto:mapserver-dev@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">mapserver-dev@lists.osgeo.org</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>Aihe:</b> Re: [MapServer-dev] Possibly undocumented 8.0 change<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal">Yes, it's with a WMS request. Apache throws a 500 error "End of script output before headers". I define a LAYER with a GROUP but no NAME. I don't believe METADATA plays into it because I commented out the METADATA
block and it fails in the same way.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal">On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 3:07 PM Seth G <<a href="mailto:sethg@geographika.co.uk" target="_blank">sethg@geographika.co.uk</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal">Hi Richard,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal">Do you have more details - is this when using WMS? Is there an error that appears?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal">For WMS there is a known conflict between GROUP and wms_layer_group in a METADATA block, but this sounds like something different.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal">Seth<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal">--<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal">web:<a href="https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgeographika.net%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cjukka.rahkonen%40maanmittauslaitos.fi%7C4e29f6da035b41ae58da08da89aace2d%7Cc4f8a63255804a1c92371d5a571b71fa%7C0%7C0%7C637973663938909073%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=DS8KRO6ZFREovCqteYci3oD%2B9sDxjv2TTCHbANGJJaI%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://geographika.net</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal">twitter: @geographika<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal">On Sun, Aug 28, 2022, at 3:53 PM, Richard Greenwood wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal">I didn't see mention of this in the docs, apologies if I missed it. It appears that as of 8.0 a layer must have a NAME. In the past it has been possible for a layer not to have a NAME if it had a GROUP.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal">Richard W. Greenwood<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal"><a href="https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.greenwoodmap.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cjukka.rahkonen%40maanmittauslaitos.fi%7C4e29f6da035b41ae58da08da89aace2d%7Cc4f8a63255804a1c92371d5a571b71fa%7C0%7C0%7C637973663938909073%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=42axJiUotL4lrds1YbVXt8cc7Ed0IC%2B2IlySiRF5R3Q%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">www.greenwoodmap.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal">MapServer-dev mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal"><a href="mailto:MapServer-dev@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">MapServer-dev@lists.osgeo.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal"><a href="https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.osgeo.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmapserver-dev&data=05%7C01%7Cjukka.rahkonen%40maanmittauslaitos.fi%7C4e29f6da035b41ae58da08da89aace2d%7Cc4f8a63255804a1c92371d5a571b71fa%7C0%7C0%7C637973663938909073%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=RGeZuORawrRt55QWp1f9B1n3o6rjqogikR2zw4lHyF0%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapserver-dev</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="m6879746932884252916qt-msonormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Richard W. Greenwood<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.greenwoodmap.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cjukka.rahkonen%40maanmittauslaitos.fi%7C4e29f6da035b41ae58da08da89aace2d%7Cc4f8a63255804a1c92371d5a571b71fa%7C0%7C0%7C637973663938909073%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=42axJiUotL4lrds1YbVXt8cc7Ed0IC%2B2IlySiRF5R3Q%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">www.greenwoodmap.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">--
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Richard W. Greenwood<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.greenwoodmap.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cjukka.rahkonen%40maanmittauslaitos.fi%7C4e29f6da035b41ae58da08da89aace2d%7Cc4f8a63255804a1c92371d5a571b71fa%7C0%7C0%7C637973663938909073%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=42axJiUotL4lrds1YbVXt8cc7Ed0IC%2B2IlySiRF5R3Q%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">www.greenwoodmap.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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