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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=892403701-23122005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Gary -</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=892403701-23122005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=892403701-23122005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>You seem to be deliberately overlooking the rather obvious
solution of removing the word "MapServer" from the Foundation's name. If
one were to steal an idea from Tyler's editors and call it the "Web Mapping
Foundation", then many of the issues you describe below would go away, wouldn't
they? The "WMF MapServer" and "WMF MapGuide" products are both members of
the WMF product family as much as a MapServer Enterprise and MapServer Cheetah
are members of the MapServer product family, aren't they? I'm not trying
to lobby for that particular name, but rather to point out another route to a
solution.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=892403701-23122005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=892403701-23122005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I guess that means I'd vote for (c).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=892403701-23122005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=892403701-23122005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> - Ed<BR></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=892403701-23122005></SPAN><SPAN
class=892403701-23122005><FONT size=2>Ed McNierney<BR>President and Chief
Mapmaker<BR>TopoZone.com / Maps a la carte, Inc.<BR>73 Princeton Street, Suite
305<BR>North Chelmsford, MA 01863<BR>Phone: +1 (978) 251-4242<BR>Fax: +1
(978) 251-1396<BR>ed@topozone.com</FONT> </DIV></SPAN><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> UMN MapServer Users List
[mailto:MAPSERVER-USERS@LISTS.UMN.EDU] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Gary
Lang<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December 22, 2005 6:50 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
MAPSERVER-USERS@LISTS.UMN.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> [UMN_MAPSERVER-USERS] Poll:
MapServer and Autodesk<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Below is a note that Tyler
Mitchell and I put together to help describe some of the 'open letter'
groups' thinking around the name issue. There is also a new POLL related
to it - please vote when you have a minute. It will be very helpful to
measuring peoples' opinions.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><A
href="http://mapserver.gis.umn.edu/community/polls/ms_autodesk">http://mapserver.gis.umn.edu/community/polls/ms_autodesk</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">At the end of this message
is a poll for you to vote on.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Those of us that signed the
open letter may not have laid out exactly what it meant to us to have a shared
name brand. This note is an attempt lay out those reasons clearly, so we
all understand why we thought it was important to share name
brands.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Each of us knew
that:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><BR>* MapServer has had a
good history, significant market share and has good equity in its name.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><BR>* Autodesk is a very
successful company, with successful products and has significant amounts of
brand equity<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><BR>* Autodesk were planning
to release "Tux" as open source and continue to develop it through an open
source community<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Autodesk had a choice to
make: a) offer to work with MapServer to find common ground, to build synergies
and not compete; or, b) set up their own open source geospatial software
foundation as a home for their product, develop their own independent branding
for their product and end up competing with
MapServer.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">In the spirit of open
source, Autodesk engaged DM Solutions, UMN, Steve Lime and other developers,
etc. to try to find a way to work together.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Granted, it was behind
closed doors because an NDA was required for a public company like Autodesk to
even have such a conversation with outsiders, but we thought we had a very good
representation of the leaders in the community.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Our collective thinking was
that a common name for the products would be ideal. Having both products
under the same banner was good, but only if both products and the foundation
could share that common name. There was going to be potential for
confusion, but sharing a common prefix for two different products is not unheard
of and it was going to be a major change. We all wanted to keep building on
MapServer momentum instead of ignoring MapServer and building something
independent of it.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">After all the feedback from
the community, it's more than obvious that the naming is an major issue.
But the naming of both the products really represents the willingness to share
the brand or not. A "MapServer Foundation" cannot equally represent both
MapServer and MapGuide. The names are the brand. If a product can't
use the name, then it isn't using the brand. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Autodesk decided that it
would rather take the harder road and work with an existing community, than go
it alone and work against that community.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">And the MapServer
stakeholders decided they would take the hard road and work with Autodesk to
find a common path, rather then compete
head-to-head.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Then the story broke, and
the MapServer community had the reaction we all saw to the name. The general
reaction to the announcement outside of the MapServer community has actually
been quite positive.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">If a common name brand can't
be used, then one alternative will be that MapServer is not going to be leading
the startup of a foundation that can house both MapServer and Tux. As
well, such a foundation can not be called the "MapServer Foundation" any more
than it should be called the "MapGuide Foundation". In many ways, voting
against sharing the name brand is actually voting against working with Autodesk
on starting the MapServer Foundation. Autodesk will not be willing to put their
investment into a foundation that hides their name brand under the name of
another web-based mapping project. It has already invested a lot of money in
promoting the "MapServer Foundation", which no one else has ever
done.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">So this was the thinking and
these are the choices. We didn't do it all perfectly and not having
broader community input was a real problem. I wish that we could have put the
following question out there for community feedback from the very
start.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Here is the poll question,
please cast your vote and comment on the poll online
at:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><A
href="http://mapserver.gis.umn.edu/community/polls/ms_autodesk">http://mapserver.gis.umn.edu/community/polls/ms_autodesk</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">-------------<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">What serves the MapServer
Community best?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">a) Work with Autodesk under
the MapServer Foundation, creating a unified brand name, with MapServer and
Autodesk lending their respective brand equities to each other and working
together to make open source web mapping the platform of
choice.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">b) Work with Autodesk to
release its product through a foundation with a different name such as
"MapTools", with MapServer now competing directly with the new brand name that
will be created and heavily promoted by Autodesk, even though they will likely
be housed by the same foundation.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Gary
Lang<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Tyler
Mitchell<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BODY></HTML>