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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Did anyone see this the last time I sent
it? It relates to Mapserver as well since Mapserver uses Proj4 for its
projections. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Clever, Max <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, July 12, 2006
2:03 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Frank Warmerdam;
MAPSERVER-USERS@LISTS.UMN.EDU<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Michigan</st1:place></st1:State> Georef Projection Problems in Proj4</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Hello
Everyone,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Two
years ago, I ran into a problem with the Michigan Georef Projection and the way
that proj identified it. I had sent emails back and forth for a while
until someone sent a temporary solution of providing false parameters that
worked.. <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>for the most part</span></b>.
This<font color=navy><span style='color:navy'> </span></font>temporary
solution, of course, did not actually solve the problem, but
instead delayed the fixing of the methods that proj identifies projections
and translates them. For that I am sorry for not remaining vigilant in
seeing a true solution being devised. But now, since I have just now
installed the latest version of GRASS 6.1, I have come full circle and face
this problem again. To provide a quick access to the background of what
has already been said on this projection please note the previous emails
below. I believe, at this time still, that the <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>omerc</span></b> projection and its parameters as used by proj cannot
correctly describe or transform a omerc projection with a "natural
origin". From what I understand, Hotine oblique mercator and
Rectified Skew Orthomorphic are one and the same or depend on where the skew is
corrected. Has there been a solution determined for this
projection? If not, maybe a solution to this problem would be
to have Proj have oblique mercators split between "natural
origins" and cartesian center point origins. I hope, maybe, someone
has been looking at this lately but I doubt it. Any comments or solutions
would be very welcome. Thanks.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Max
Clever<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><b><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-weight:bold'>Gerald Evenden</span></font></b> <a
href="mailto:proj%40lists.maptools.org?Subject=%5BFwd%3A%20Re%3A%20%5BProj%5D%20Re%3A%20The%20Michigan%20Georef%20Projection%20Problem%5D&In-Reply-To="
target="_blank"
title="[Fwd: Re: [Proj] Re: The Michigan Georef Projection Problem]">gerald.evenden
at verizon.net </a><br>
<i><span style='font-style:italic'>Wed Dec 22 16:00:32 EST 2004</span></i> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Just to add my own two cents: the biggest problem with omerc is that <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>there<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>are no universal standards for specifying this projection. Indeed, <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Hotine<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>may have had a specific method in mind but various uses have created<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>their own systems and that's why there is 4 pages of description on the<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>projection in the file omerc.pdf on:<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="http://members.verizon.net/%7Evze2hc4d/proj4/" target="_blank">http://members.verizon.net/<wbr>~vze2hc4d/proj4/</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>This applies to libproj4 but some applies to old proj4.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>______________________________<wbr>_______<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Jerry and the low riders: Daisy Mae and Joshua.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>"The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due to the<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>absence from <st1:City
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Jerusalem</st1:place></st1:City> of a lunatic asylum." <st1:City
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Havelock</st1:place></st1:City> Ellis, 1914<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Max -<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Thanks; I guess my concern is that it would be odd for proj to "misuse"<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>this particular set of false easting and northing values, since it is<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>known to correctly use such values in all sorts of cases. I just don't<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>like accepting answers that appear to work "for whatever reason", and I<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>will try to find time to look into this.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I'm reminded of the last two chapters of Isaac Asimov's "Second<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Foundation". They're titled "The Answer that Satisfied", followed by<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>"The Answer that was True"!<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> - Ed<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Ed McNierney<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>President and Chief Mapmaker<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>TopoZone.com / Maps a la carte, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><st1:Street
w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>73 Princeton Street, Suite 305</span></font></st1:address></st1:Street><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>North Chelmsford</span></font></st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">MA</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">01863</st1:PostalCode></st1:place><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Phone: +1 978 251-4242 Fax: +1 978 251-1396 <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>From: Clever, Max [mailto:<a
href="http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj" target="_blank">Maxc at spicergroup.com</a>] <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 1:21 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>To: Ed McNierney<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Cc: <a
href="http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj" target="_blank">proj at xserve.flids.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: [Proj] Re: The <st1:State
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Michigan</st1:place></st1:State> Georef Projection<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Problem]<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Ed,<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>the False Northings and Eastings defined in the Original Michigan Georef<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>EPSG file are the true parameters, but Proj does not handle them<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>properly for whatever reason. The new Northings and Eastings that<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Melita provided make up for Proj's miscalculation, at least to a certain<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>degree. The problems that proj had originally created SEEM to me to<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>only be of a translational manner, other characteristics such as<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>azimuths and distances were very close to what they should be. However,<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I have not looked at the code that Proj uses for this projection. So,<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>all in all, I guess I would say that the problem with proj and this EPSG<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>102123 is not really fixed. But the new false Northing and Eastings<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>that Melita provided will work for what I intend to do for now. I don't<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>consider myself an expert on transformation algorithms, even though I've<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>written a few before. All I know is what the epsg parameters stand for<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>and that in this case, proj seems to be misusing them.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Max Clever<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>From: Ed McNierney [mailto:<a
href="http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj" target="_blank">ed at topozone.com</a>]<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 7:04 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>To: Clever, Max<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: [Proj] Re: The <st1:State
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Michigan</st1:place></st1:State> Georef Projection<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Problem]<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Max -<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Yes, I saw that message - it just wasn't obvious what her changes were.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>So you're saying that the False Northing and False Easting values are<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>incorrect, and that's it? So now we have to figure out WHY they're<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>incorrect. The values shown below:<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> +x_0=2546731.496 +y_0=-4354009.816<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> +x_0=499839.8337 +y_0=528600.2398<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>look completely different from one another. Why? I'm very concerned<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>that if you don't really understand why this change "fixed" the problem,<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>then it might not really fix it in the general case.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> - Ed<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>From: Clever, Max [mailto:<a
href="http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj" target="_blank">Maxc at spicergroup.com</a>]<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 5:40 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>To: Ed McNierney<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: [Proj] Re: The <st1:State
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Michigan</st1:place></st1:State> Georef Projection<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Problem]<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Ed,<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>this is the message that Dylan forwarded me today. It solved my problem<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>of trying to project data with UTM and Michigan State Plane coordinates<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>onto a mapfile defined with the Michigan Georef Projection. It gets the<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>image within about 0.5 meters of where it ought to be I think. Here's<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>the message containing the parameters. Really the only thing that ought<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>to be changed is the False Easting and False Northing, she rounded the<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>latitude and longitude to not enough decimal places but if you use what<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>she shows for that then its pretty close. <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>-------- Original Message --------<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Subject: Re: [Proj] Re: The <st1:State
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Michigan</st1:place></st1:State> Georef Projection Problem<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 12:39:54 -0800 (PST)<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>From: Melita Kennedy [ESRI-Redlands] <<a
href="http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj" target="_blank">mkennedy at esri.com</a>><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Reply-To: Melita Kennedy [ESRI-Redlands] <<a
href="http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj" target="_blank">mkennedy at esri.com</a>><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>To: <a
href="http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj" target="_blank">gerald.evenden at verizon.net</a>, <a
href="http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj" target="_blank">mkennedy2 at earthlink.net</a>, <a
href="http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj" target="_blank"></a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><span
class=MsoHyperlink><u><font size=2 color=blue face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:blue'><a
href="http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj" target="_blank">keon at nacse.org</a></span></font></u></span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>CC: <a
href="http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj" target="_blank"><u><font
color=blue><span style='color:blue'>mkennedy at esri.com</span></font></u></a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Hi Dylan, Jerry, and Frank<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I'm not cc'ing to the list as I don't think I can post from this e-mail<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>account. Dylan, feel free to post all or part of my reply on the list if<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>you wish.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I think I understand what's happening, although I'm bit confused because<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>it means that the State Plane zone, <st1:State
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Alaska</st1:place></st1:State> zone 1, probably isn't<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>working either.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>First off, here are a few test points from PROJ using this defn.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>proj +proj=omerc +lat_0=45.309166667 +lonc=-86.0 +alpha=337.255555556<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>+k=0.9996 +x_0=2546731.496 +y_0=-4354009.816 +ellps=GRS80 +datum=NAD83 <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>+units=m<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>86W 43N<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>2546756.16 -4610501.20<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>86W 44N<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>2626908.90 -4498940.28<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>86W 45.309166667N<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>0.00 0.00<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>and now the results from the ESRI Projection Engine<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>cymru{melita}: forward91 102123<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Projection Engine Version 9.0 (Dec 15 2004)<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>-86 43<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>-85 44<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>-86 45.309166667<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>499864.50 272108.86<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>580017.24 383669.77<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>499839.83 528600.24<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Quite a difference, eh?<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Hotine, "Oblique Mercator", RSO, and whatever other names are in use<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>confused me for quite a while. The ESRI Projection Engine now has<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>6 variants to try to support this map projection. Partially, that's<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>because we've added different versions at different times as we've come<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>to understand the projection better.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Hotine 2 Pt Natural Origin<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Hotine 2 <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType w:st="on">Point</st1:PlaceType> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">Center</st1:PlaceType></st1:place><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Hotine Azimuth Natural Origin<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on"><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Hotine</span></font></st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">Azimuth</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">Center</st1:PlaceType></st1:place><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Rectified Skew Orthomorphic - Natural Origin Rectified Skew Orthomorphic<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>- Center<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>PROJ supports Two Point and Point/Azimuth cases. From what I'm seeing in<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>the results and in the documentation, they are what ESRI calls the<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>'Center' cases. That is, the cartesian origin is located at the 'center'<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>of the projection, lonc and lat_0.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>The ESRI Natural Origin cases have the cartesian origin where the<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>central line crosses the aposphere. This is almost the ellipsoid's<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>equator. <st1:State
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Alaska</st1:place></st1:State> zone 1 and Michigan GeoRef both use the natural origin<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>case of Point/Azimuth. That's why they have such large negative false<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>northings and large positive false eastings.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>The ESRI version (and the PROJ versions) also rectify the projection<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>back to 'north'. The default proj setting is +no_rot (no rotation).<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>The azimuth is used for the rectifying angle.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Hmmm, I get different results if I use +no_rot versus when I omit it. So<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>perhaps +no_rot is a rectifying angle of zero.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>The ESRI RSO implementation have the same Hotine parameters, plus a<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>rectifying angle. Although I haven't tested it, I believe this is the<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>same parameter as the +no_rot parameter. The standard RSO definitions<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>must have this parameter set, as the rectifying angle is not the same as<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>the azimuth.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Snyder talks somewhat about this in a footnote in _Map Projections:<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>A Working Manual_, but I (and the projection programmers here find the<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>entire section to be difficult to follow.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I think you can get the results you expect with these parameters:<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>proj +proj=omerc +lat_0=45.309166667 +lonc=-86.0 +alpha=337.255555556<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>+k=0.9996 +x_0=499839.8337 +y_0=528600.2398 +ellps=GRS80 +datum=NAD83 <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>+units=m<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Melita<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>--<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Melita Kennedy<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Product Specialist<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>ESRI, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj" target="_blank"><u><font
color=blue><span style='color:blue'>mkennedy at esri.com</span></font></u></a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>From: Ed McNierney [mailto:<a
href="http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj" target="_blank"><u><font
color=blue><span style='color:blue'>ed at topozone.com</span></font></u></a>]<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 1:20 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>To: Clever, Max; <a
href="http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj" target="_blank"><u><font
color=blue><span style='color:blue'>proj at xserve.flids.com</span></font></u></a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: [Proj] Re: The <st1:State
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Michigan</st1:place></st1:State> Georef Projection<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Problem]<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Max -<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I didn't have time to closely read Melita's email - what exactly was the<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>correction? If the EPSG parameters for this projection are incorrect,<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>we should get that reported and fixed. Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> - Ed<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Ed McNierney<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>President and Chief Mapmaker<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>TopoZone.com / Maps a la carte, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><st1:Street
w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>73 Princeton Street, Suite 305</span></font></st1:address></st1:Street><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>North Chelmsford</span></font></st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">MA</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">01863</st1:PostalCode></st1:place><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj" target="_blank"><u><font
color=blue><span style='color:blue'>ed at topozone.com</span></font></u></a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>(978) 251-4242 <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>From: <a
href="http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj" target="_blank"><u><font
color=blue><span style='color:blue'>proj-bounces at xserve.flids.com</span></font></u></a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>[mailto:<a
href="http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj" target="_blank"><u><font
color=blue><span style='color:blue'>proj-bounces at xserve.flids.com</span></font></u></a>] On Behalf Of Clever, Max<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 1:23 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>To: <a
href="http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj" target="_blank"><u><font
color=blue><span style='color:blue'>proj at xserve.flids.com</span></font></u></a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: [Proj] Re: The <st1:State
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Michigan</st1:place></st1:State> Georef Projection<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Problem]<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Hello Everyone,<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I just wanted to say thanks to everybody for the fix of the EPSG.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Melita, those new translational parameters worked great for what we are<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>doing with Michigan Georef, thanks to everyone who put time into<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>figuring out what was going wrong. This forum definitely has some<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>collective brainpower.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Happy Holidays Everyone<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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