Hi Dave,<div><br></div><div>I agree with you that we do have to walk a fine line in some cases. And I am certainly an advocate that we should be trying to get more commercial companies engaged with OSGeo and open source solutions. As you know, my background is that I've worked for a couple of the largest commercial (and closed source) geospatial vendors.<br>
<br></div><div>So to take your latest example with Autodesk, I would agree that we shouldn't have marketing material that suggests (explicitly or implicitly), "don't buy MapGuide Enterprise, use the free MapGuide Open Source instead!!". But at the same time, AutoDesk is not trying to hide the fact that there is an open source version of MapGuide, so general marketing to persuade the world that MapGuide in general is a good thing helps OSGeo and helps Autodesk. Commercial companies like Autodesk will typically be looking to make money in one of two ways - providing support or consulting services around the free open source software, and / or selling additional closed source products on top of the open source base. There are plenty of customers out there who see value in paying for both of these things. And in either case, convincing the world that the base open source product is a good thing helps the commercial company make the case for their solution.</div>
<div><br></div><div>As we are exploring these sort of marketing ideas, it might be a good idea to talk to Autodesk and other OSGeo sponsors and get their thoughts - we certainly don't want to alienate them, and we may be able to help each other.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div> Peter.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div>
<div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Dave McIlhagga <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dmcilhagga@dmsolutions.ca" target="_blank">dmcilhagga@dmsolutions.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Hi Peter,<div><br><div>You're right - it is a tricky line. I suppose a better example would be MapGuide Enterprise which is a proprietary product, but developed with significant support from Autodesk. Is running an OSGeo adword targeting searches of AutoCAD Map or MapGuide Enterprise and promoting QGIS and MapServer (or even MapGuide Open Source) appropriate?</div>
<div><br></div><div>All I'm saying is that it is a very fine line -- especially if you *do* want to attract corporate sponsors of the foundation who may have proprietary geospatial products built with open source components. ESRI, Google, Intergraph and Safe Software are all proprietary software providers who have open source components within their offerings. If we're truly open -- we should be striving to find better ways to work with these organizations just as we do with everyone else.</div>
<div><br></div><font color="#888888"><div>Dave</div></font><div><div></div><div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>
<span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div>
<span style="font-size:medium"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:medium"><br></span></div></span></div></span></span></div><div><div>On 2009-10-20, at 2:24 PM, Peter Batty wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite">
Dave,<div><br></div><div>The mission of OSGeo is "To support the development of open source geospatial software, and promote its widespread use" (<a href="http://www.osgeo.org/content/foundation/about.html" target="_blank">http://www.osgeo.org/content/foundation/about.html</a>). By definition if someone is using an OSGeo product for something, that is a lost opportunity for a closed source software company to make some money. </div>
<div><br></div><div>While ESRI and other closed source vendors may make use of some open source code within their offerings, and as part of this they may contribute, that is a very lightweight "partnership". ESRI is not a sponsor of OSGeo. I have never heard of a situation where ESRI has suggested the use of MapServer instead of ArcGIS Server (for instance), nor would I expect them to ever do that. It is in that context that I refer to ESRI as a "competitor" of OSGeo (they and others may be both competitors and contributors depending on the context).</div>
<div><br></div><div>Nowhere did I suggest that you should only use open source geospatial software (I happen to not believe that), and my suggested wording was "reasons why you should consider an open source web mapping platform", which is all pretty low key and reasonable I thought. </div>
<div><br></div><div>In short, if we can't say to someone who is interested in finding out more about ESRI, "here's an open source alternative you might want to consider", I'm not really sure how we can can carry out OSGeo's mission to promote widespread use of open source, or why we have this mailing list?</div>
<div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div> Peter.</div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Dave McIlhagga <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dmcilhagga@dmsolutions.ca" target="_blank">dmcilhagga@dmsolutions.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">The only issue with competing for Google search terms that include commercial product brands is that many of these companies are active adopters and contributors to OSGeo projects. Note that ESRI is among this group. Competing with your partners for eyeballs is a line you need to walk carefully.<div>
<br></div><div>Also - I'm not sure that promoting the "us vs. them" of "open vs. proprietary" is a very healthy approach for the organization.</div><div><br></div><div>Dave</div><div><br></div><div>
<font color="#888888"><br><div>
<span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div>
Dave McIlhagga</div><div><a href="http://www.mapsherpa.com/" target="_blank">www.mapsherpa.com</a></div><div><a href="http://www.dmsolutions.ca/" target="_blank">www.dmsolutions.ca</a></div></span></div></span></span>
</div></font><div><div></div><div>
<br><div><div>On 2009-10-20, at 11:41 AM, Peter Batty wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite">A couple of thoughts ... I think that if people are specifically looking for open source geospatial solutions, conference, etc they probably find OSGeo and FOSS4G pretty readily (and if not a bit of simple SEO tweaking should do the trick). <div>
<br></div><div>For example, if you google for Open Source Geospatial then <a href="http://osgeo.org/" target="_blank">osgeo.org</a> is the top hit. If you google for Open Source GIS then we move down to fifth, but still on the front page (we might want to mention the phrase open source GIS more or add it to the keywords in the page metadata if it's not there, if we think that's a phrase we want to be top for).</div>
<div><br></div><div>If we are going to pay for adwords then I would vote they should be something that would not otherwise show up OSGeo sites - for example generic terms like "web mapping" or "spatial database", or names of commercial competitors like "ESRI".</div>
<div><br></div><div>If I had a small budget to experiment with this, I would probably add a page to the OSGeo site focused on users of existing closed source GIS (or possibly ESRI specifically) - something pretty concise and punchy, like "top 5 reasons why you should consider an open source web mapping platform" (and perhaps "in conjunction with your existing GIS"?), and then pay to have the keyword ESRI return that page in the list. And we need to make sure we have the appropriate stats tracking to see how well it's working. Google Analytics integrates with their advertising stuff so that is probably the obvious choice.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I'd be happy to volunteer a bit of time to help with this.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div> Peter.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 12:51 AM, daniele.ocu ocu <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:daniele.ocu@gmail.com" target="_blank">daniele.ocu@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I worked with Google Adwords for a couple of years a while back, a lot has changed since then.<br><br>A nice tool for getting new Keywords (apart from of corse Googles own tool) is:<br>
<br><a href="http://freekeywords.wordtracker.com/" target="_blank">http://freekeywords.wordtracker.com/</a><br>
<br>Another great sour of information on PayPerClick advertising is the Marketing Experiments Website. Really interesting to have a look at the Webclinics<br><br><a href="http://www.marketingexperiments.com/index.php?searchword=adwords&option=search&x=0&y=0" target="_blank">http://www.marketingexperiments.com/index.php?searchword=adwords&option=search&x=0&y=0</a><br>
<br>Daniele<br><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 1:00 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:marketing-request@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">marketing-request@lists.osgeo.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: AdWords? (Lorenzo Becchi)<br>
2. Re: AdWords? (Alex Mandel)<br>
3. Re: AdWords? (Tyler Mitchell)<br>
4. Re: AdWords? (Lorenzo Becchi)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:26:26 +1100<br>
From: Lorenzo Becchi <<a href="mailto:lorenzo@ominiverdi.com" target="_blank">lorenzo@ominiverdi.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Marketing] AdWords?<br>
To: "Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo)" <<a href="mailto:tmitchell@osgeo.org" target="_blank">tmitchell@osgeo.org</a>><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:marketing@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">marketing@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:58c3b9530910182126k5fbbeba8idef550befe4027e0@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">58c3b9530910182126k5fbbeba8idef550befe4027e0@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
I have an idea:<br>
why not using it for FOSS4G 2010?<br>
:)<br>
<br>
suggestions for the keywords?<br>
<br>
lorenzo<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo) <<br>
<a href="mailto:tmitchell@osgeo.org" target="_blank">tmitchell@osgeo.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Anyone familiar with using Google AdWords? I've received a $100 voucher<br>
> for testing it out and would be glad for some guidance on testing it and<br>
> tracking its usage.<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Marketing mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Marketing@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Marketing@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing</a><br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 21:43:51 -0700<br>
From: Alex Mandel <<a href="mailto:tech_dev@wildintellect.com" target="_blank">tech_dev@wildintellect.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Marketing] AdWords?<br>
To: <a href="mailto:marketing@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">marketing@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4ADBEE87.2090200@wildintellect.com" target="_blank">4ADBEE87.2090200@wildintellect.com</a>><br>
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<br>
Frank and someone else, can't remember right now also offered to donate<br>
some adwords credits they had too. Should we do a donate your adwords<br>
campaign to build up a budget?<br>
<br>
Alex<br>
<br>
Lorenzo Becchi wrote:<br>
> I have an idea:<br>
> why not using it for FOSS4G 2010?<br>
> :)<br>
><br>
> suggestions for the keywords?<br>
><br>
> lorenzo<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo) <<br>
> <a href="mailto:tmitchell@osgeo.org" target="_blank">tmitchell@osgeo.org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Anyone familiar with using Google AdWords? I've received a $100 voucher<br>
>> for testing it out and would be glad for some guidance on testing it and<br>
>> tracking its usage.<br>
>><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:52:22 +1100<br>
From: Tyler Mitchell <<a href="mailto:tmitchell.osgeo@shaw.ca" target="_blank">tmitchell.osgeo@shaw.ca</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Marketing] AdWords?<br>
To: <a href="mailto:tech@wildintellect.com" target="_blank">tech@wildintellect.com</a><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:marketing@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">marketing@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:cf8fe04f36e55.4adc8b36@shaw.ca" target="_blank">cf8fe04f36e55.4adc8b36@shaw.ca</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Very nice ideas Alex and Lorenzo. Let's brainstorm some terms too so we're ready to use them :) I'm not all that familiar with the methods of using adwords well, but will help wherever I can.<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: Alex Mandel <<a href="mailto:tech_dev@wildintellect.com" target="_blank">tech_dev@wildintellect.com</a>><br>
Date: Monday, October 19, 2009 3:43 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Marketing] AdWords?<br>
To: <a href="mailto:marketing@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">marketing@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<br>
> Frank and someone else, can't remember right now also offered to<br>
> donatesome adwords credits they had too. Should we do a donate<br>
> your adwords<br>
> campaign to build up a budget?<br>
><br>
> Alex<br>
><br>
> Lorenzo Becchi wrote:<br>
> > I have an idea:<br>
> > why not using it for FOSS4G 2010?<br>
> > :)<br>
> ><br>
> > suggestions for the keywords?<br>
> ><br>
> > lorenzo<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo) <<br>
> > <a href="mailto:tmitchell@osgeo.org" target="_blank">tmitchell@osgeo.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> >> Anyone familiar with using Google AdWords? I've<br>
> received a $100 voucher<br>
> >> for testing it out and would be glad for some guidance on<br>
> testing it and<br>
> >> tracking its usage.<br>
> >><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Marketing mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Marketing@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Marketing@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing</a><br>
><br>
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Message: 4<br>
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 16:17:59 +1100<br>
From: Lorenzo Becchi <<a href="mailto:lorenzo@ominiverdi.com" target="_blank">lorenzo@ominiverdi.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Marketing] AdWords?<br>
To: <a href="mailto:tmitchell@osgeo.org" target="_blank">tmitchell@osgeo.org</a><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:marketing@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">marketing@lists.osgeo.org</a>, <a href="mailto:tech@wildintellect.com" target="_blank">tech@wildintellect.com</a><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:58c3b9530910182217m10866929i6672f2987a229513@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">58c3b9530910182217m10866929i6672f2987a229513@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
I've been using it for a while, few year ago, while still a web developer.<br>
It was very easy at the time and I suppose it's easier now.<br>
You create a project (don't know the exact term) and choose keywords for it.<br>
Then google specify the price per click for every keyword. You are able to<br>
decide which keyword activate and you always have the control over the money<br>
you've spent already and it's plenty of stats.<br>
<br>
lorenzo<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 3:52 PM, Tyler Mitchell <<a href="mailto:tmitchell.osgeo@shaw.ca" target="_blank">tmitchell.osgeo@shaw.ca</a>>wrote:<br>
<br>
> Very nice ideas Alex and Lorenzo. Let's brainstorm some terms too so we're<br>
> ready to use them :) I'm not all that familiar with the methods of using<br>
> adwords well, but will help wherever I can.<br>
><br>
> ----- Original Message -----<br>
> From: Alex Mandel <<a href="mailto:tech_dev@wildintellect.com" target="_blank">tech_dev@wildintellect.com</a>><br>
> Date: Monday, October 19, 2009 3:43 pm<br>
> Subject: Re: [Marketing] AdWords?<br>
> To: <a href="mailto:marketing@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">marketing@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
><br>
> > Frank and someone else, can't remember right now also offered to<br>
> > donatesome adwords credits they had too. Should we do a donate<br>
> > your adwords<br>
> > campaign to build up a budget?<br>
> ><br>
> > Alex<br>
> ><br>
> > Lorenzo Becchi wrote:<br>
> > > I have an idea:<br>
> > > why not using it for FOSS4G 2010?<br>
> > > :)<br>
> > ><br>
> > > suggestions for the keywords?<br>
> > ><br>
> > > lorenzo<br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo) <<br>
> > > <a href="mailto:tmitchell@osgeo.org" target="_blank">tmitchell@osgeo.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> > ><br>
> > >> Anyone familiar with using Google AdWords? I've<br>
> > received a $100 voucher<br>
> > >> for testing it out and would be glad for some guidance on<br>
> > testing it and<br>
> > >> tracking its usage.<br>
> > >><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > Marketing mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:Marketing@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Marketing@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
> > <a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing</a><br>
> ><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Marketing mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Marketing@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Marketing@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing" target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing</a><br>
><br>
><br>
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End of Marketing Digest, Vol 25, Issue 4<br>
****************************************<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br><br><br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Peter Batty - President, Spatial Networking<br>W: +1 303 339 0957 M: +1 720 346 3954<br>Blog: <a href="http://geothought.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://geothought.blogspot.com</a><br>
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</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Peter Batty - President, Spatial Networking<br>W: +1 303 339 0957 M: +1 720 346 3954<br>Blog: <a href="http://geothought.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://geothought.blogspot.com</a><br>
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</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Peter Batty - President, Spatial Networking<br>W: +1 303 339 0957 M: +1 720 346 3954<br>Blog: <a href="http://geothought.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://geothought.blogspot.com</a><br>
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