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<p>Hi all,</p>
<p>Thanks for opening up this discussion, I think it is a super
healthy way of solving issue for the community and by the
community. I do think it's extremely important to build strong
bases and if there already are some issues, it should be solved...
So THANK YOU</p>
<p>First big clap for creating the board mailing list, and sharing
meeting notes and more stuff on the wiki, a great start also for
openness. I was missing it ^^ I also agree with Phil, that you
guys at the board should not be that hard to yourselves, this
community is at its start, there are some processes to write down,
and this takes time... From as far as I am, I don't see an issue
with no solutions... <br>
</p>
<p>From what I see so far from afar ... one great thing would be to
ensure a safe/welcoming space for people to express themselves,
which joins what Adam said.. I don't know if this possible, as I
have never seen that before, but would it be a good thing to have
a charter that each director should sign, and engage to do its
best to respect it and make respect it? For example I would love
to see in this chart, that no one in discussions can use x years
of experience, or a resume to enforce its arguments. Anyone
regardless its experience, origine, age, degree etc should have
the same voice. It's about humility, against paternalism.. I felt
there is this kind of issue, in open mailing list, so it would be
great if we could reduce it. I took part into the french OSM
community (an association), and when some people were to harsh on
mailing list (which closed the door to inclusivity), the board
(one person from it), could come privately to this person and
remind some good practice for keeping the discussion
constructive...<br>
</p>
<p>Also, I know that some opendata communities had issues at a time
because when they engaged they had some confidentiality clauses.
For example, messages shared in private channels (out of mailing
lists) were confidentials... It think it would be heathier that
all but sensitive ones (personal informations) would be sharable
in further discussions in mailing lists.</p>
<p>I also really like that when there is an issue it can be
discussed here; board of directors supports the community, if
there is no consensus, it feels natural to me to open the
discussion to the community, so again thanks Ed.<br>
</p>
<p>And one last thing is about the money, I know that french OSM
community only accepted money/funds for running the servers, and
promoting OSM community (annuel SOTM event, and presence on
events). This avoids conflicts of interests. This ensure openess.
It of course lower the amount of money they had and their capacity
to do things on OSM but on the long run, it ensured the french OSM
associations supports the OSM community. Now french OSM community
is super diverse and has a lot of entrepreners doing great things
... Saying that as an example, not a solution ;) I didn't get into
the money/funds discussions, a matter of time, please excuse this
if you already talked about it!</p>
<p>This is my thoughts, hope this helps,</p>
<p>Violaine</p>
<p>PS : my 2 cents on communication channels : I do prefer emails,
because I am never on slack (only if I am pinged actually) and I
can take time to read and answer as I am not a native english
speaker. SO yes to mailing lists!</p>
<p>PPS: not beeing a native english speaker, I hope my words were
well chosen, if not please excuse me, wasn't on purpose!<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 07/12/2020 à 11:27, Alex Leith a
écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAEvGJspW9v97UrgbDteDJ5b8BYy-a6Vu4wSD2pQVuBrztwcjnQ@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">Hey Folks
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I volunteered with SSSI for 6 years, including 3 on the
Board, so I've seen this all before. And really, we could do
worse than becoming like SSSI, in that they are an
organisation with deep roots that has been around in different
variations for decades. SSSI is mostly run by volunteers,
although there are a number of paid staff too. But most
importantly, it's a group of people doing their best, and it's
very easy to criticise the work of others, and much harder to
get inside and actually do the work. I can look back at my
time in SSSI and feel that I did good work. I would have liked
to be more opinionated and to have actually dived in and made
some changes that I didn't, but I've learnt from that, and I
have a bunch of great colleagues, mentors and now, to some
extent, mentees in that community. Also remember that they
supported us in running our first conference while expecting
us to make a loss! We could do a lot worse than that.
Supporting someone in their innovation, despite expectations
of something less than success is exactly how you empower
someone. I'm grateful for SSSI's institutional knowledge and
its community.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think it might be worth the new Board calling on someone
from Linux Australia perhaps to talk to the Board about how
they survive the politics and drama over time. But right now I
can't imagine what I might ask someone like that. Because you
know what? I think Phil captured it right. This year has been
ridiculous, we're volunteers and we need to protect ourselves
from cynicism and burnout. I trust those who I am on the Board
with, without question. It's not a matter of faith, it's
respect. Basic respect.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On Ed's original question around openness and transparency,
I hope conversations like this help us, but I can't help but
think that they might be harming us. We have work that must be
done, a new Board to onboard and some kind of conference to
plan next year and having the same arguments about what
perfection is does not get us any closer to that.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So, like a cockroach, I'll slip back under the fridge,
having survived another pair of boots.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alex</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 at 08:07,
Bruce Bannerman <<a
href="mailto:bruce.bannerman.osgeo@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">bruce.bannerman.osgeo@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Thank
you Adam for taking the time to contribute what must have been
a very difficult response.<br>
<br>
I value your thoughts on this.<br>
<br>
If Osgeo-Oceania is going to survive as a viable open source
community, we need to learn from experiences such as yours and
John’s.<br>
<br>
We cannot afford to turn away and lose such talent from our
community.<br>
<br>
Our volunteers are our lifeblood. We cannot afford to lose
any.<br>
<br>
OK, I can see that there is an issue here.<br>
<br>
It is important that we understand the root cause of what has
caused this rift within our community. <br>
<br>
Therefore, I urge others to also share their experiences. We
can then move forward.<br>
<br>
It is not easy establishing and nurturing a successful open
source community. Once it is done effectively, the community
will develop a momentum of its own.<br>
<br>
I can see that we have been very successful at attracting new
blood to our community. However that has also brought people
who are new to open source communities and how they need to
operate to thrive.<br>
<br>
With some effort, we can resolve this current bump in the
road.<br>
<br>
To the current and former OSGeo Oceania Directors. Thank you
for volunteering your skills and time to lead our community.
You have not had an easy task, and it is easy for those who
have not been in a similar position to criticise.<br>
<br>
As a community, we can turn this situation around. We have a
lot of experience to call on, particularly those with
extensive international open source experience.<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
Bruce<br>
<br>
<br>
> On 8 Dec 2020, at 02:02, Adam Steer <<a
href="mailto:adam.d.steer@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">adam.d.steer@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Hey Ed<br>
> <br>
> Thanks for initiating this discussion. My story is long
and boring and<br>
> yes, the fundamental reason for resigning is that I
literally could<br>
> not interact with the board anymore - because of ethical
concerns,<br>
> because it just felt like a drain on my time and energy,
because I<br>
> really felt like I had wasted so much time being forced
into circular<br>
> discussions and projects (eg communications, which is
still a giant<br>
> and growing tangle) - so I leave this discussion and the
incoming<br>
> board with some suggestions:<br>
> <br>
> - always remember the community does not need OSGeo
Oceania, but OSGeo<br>
> Oceania needs the community.<br>
> - always give people space to speak for themselves,
especially in<br>
> board meetings.<br>
> - always respect peoples' efforts and experience and
input, and do it<br>
> consistently for everyone<br>
> - as John indicated, operating transparently is easy and
fruitful. The<br>
> tools are there use them<br>
> - as you indicated, always propose a solution when a
problem is raised<br>
> - remember we have a broad, caring, thoughtful,
enthusiastic and<br>
> deeply experienced community to draw on<br>
> - remember we have existing patterns for open and
transparent<br>
> operation to draw on (OSGeo in particular, the book Bruce
mentioned,<br>
> other long established chapters of OSGeo and OSM, orgs
like Linux<br>
> Australia), and ready collaborators for taking on
projects like<br>
> building open conference systems<br>
> - remember to care about ethics, particularly around how
we handle<br>
> personal data we are trusted with and who we hand it to.
Take the time<br>
> to learn about how companies we use (eg Mailchimp)
operate instead of<br>
> just glossing over data issues for convenience.<br>
> - value transparency over bells and whistles in
communication.<br>
> Remember http has also been around a while but we don't
call it the<br>
> cockroach of the internet - and even fancy mailers use
ancient mail<br>
> transfer protocols ;). Mailing lists persist because they
are<br>
> incredibly functional and useful.<br>
> - avoid becoming another SSSI.<br>
> <br>
> Congratulations on being elected to the board, I hope the
organisation<br>
> remembers its roots in this coming year. I am unlikely to
spend much<br>
> OSGeo Oceania time for a while - however feel free to
reach out about<br>
> any wrinkles you find that have my name attached. I've
made as much<br>
> mess as anyone, and haven't been particularly great at
handing over<br>
> things<br>
> <br>
> Best,<br>
> Adam<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Oceania mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Oceania@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Oceania@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
> <a
href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Oceania mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Oceania@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Oceania@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Alex Leith<br>
</div>
m: 0419189050</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Oceania mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Oceania@lists.osgeo.org">Oceania@lists.osgeo.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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