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<p>Hi all,</p>
<p>I am also more than happy that this discussion occurs in this
mailing list, <br>
</p>
<p>Thanks to Alex also to mention this discussion will be taken into
account by the board, </p>
<p>Would it be possible to share feedbacks toward the community, and
build the strategy on sponsoring and keynote collaboratively with
the community? I am happy to support if needed. <br>
</p>
<p>I would also like to mention that there is no need to point on
opinions of each other, and I appreciate that this discussion goes
toward a more inclusive direction. It's ok to have different views
^^<br>
</p>
<p>For the "stories" : I also heard that esri refused to contribute
to PGRSC conf as long as QGIS was represented. Plus locally
(french polynesia) esri has an agressive approach with the
governement : "they" (we will never know where does it comes from
still) force the use of esri products, staff used to QGIS are
forbidden to use it now... So I am not a big fan of putting too
much visibility on ESRI during FOSS4G.<br>
</p>
<p>And in order to correct that, as a regular OSM contributor, I
never used esri imagery, i always found something better. I think
ESRI is interested to sponsor OSM for their basemaps (OSM based).
It would be more than ok for me that they sponsor foods or goodies
for OSM events : mapathons or so. <br>
</p>
<p>Thank you all for this discussion, <br>
</p>
<p>Happy mapping, <br>
</p>
<p>All the best</p>
<p>PS :english is not my native language so excuse me if some
expressions are not the best<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 22/11/2024 à 11:26, Alex Leith via
Oceania a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAEvGJsoTm5SLTA96oGC2ByHt6UcWqt5U6ONRoTp1N_WLWLKq8w@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Cholena
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Just want to correct you here on your statement that <i>"I
know ESRI focused on the travel grant this year, and have
expressed a willingness to do that again."</i></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The Esri sponsorship was justified on their side as support
for the OpenStreetMap community, and for the State of the Map
part of our conference. This doesn't mean anything for us as
the local organising committee, though, as it's just general
conference sponsorship. They did sponsor the TGP breakfast as
part of their support, which was nice.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Separately, the conference committee budgeted for 20% of
all sponsorship to go as additional support towards the
travel grant program, but that was an internal matter and
decision.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regarding next year's global event, I'm not going to
comment on private conversations I've had with a range of
potential sponsors, but please be aware that we (the local
organising committee) and we (the OSGeo Oceania Board) are
taking this email thread seriously.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 at 19:33,
Cholena Smart via Oceania <<a
href="mailto:oceania@lists.osgeo.org" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">oceania@lists.osgeo.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi all,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm on the 'this makes me uncomfortable' side of the
fence here. I think Andrew J has articulated it really
nicely, and I strongly support the notion that sponsorship
should be carefully considered, not just the who, but the
how as well.</div>
<div> <br>
I know ESRI focused on the travel grant this year, and
have expressed a willingness to do that again. The travel
grant program is one of the most prominent components of
the conference, and it is built on the time, energy and
good will of a bunch of volunteers, as well as the
financial contributions from other sponsors and
individuals, and the notion that you might be able to buy
influence and bypass all that goodness just doesn't seem
right. I'd hope not to see one financial sponsor receiving
more credit, rights, or recognition than any other
contributor in this case.<br>
<br>
On a side note, I did hear a mocking comment from one of
the ESRI reps at the conference about the open sourceness
of the conference, which really hasn't helped me formulate
a positive opinion. Anyway, I'm really glad this was
raised (thank you Andrew) - more than one conversation was
had about it at the conference, so it's great to see a
more public discussion.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Cholena<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 at
09:28, Simon Nitz via Oceania <<a
href="mailto:oceania@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">oceania@lists.osgeo.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div lang="EN-NZ">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">Happy to shoot this
particular elephant!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">To be honest I have
been shat on by certain NZ ESRI partners (note
there is no direct ESRI presence in NZ, which
may have made a difference) over the years -
both as a vendor and as a potential client. So,
I have no particular love for the NZ ESRI
partners (although there are some exceptional
individuals I talk to occasionally).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">I think it is
fantastic that everyone is engaging in this
conversation (even if my own views may not align
with everyone) and we should certainly consider
our communities views when looking at
sponsorship in the future.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">Cheers</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">Simon</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US"
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Oceania <<a
href="mailto:oceania-bounces@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">oceania-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Carrol Chan via Oceania<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 21, 2024 2:08
PM<br>
<b>To:</b> eli <<a
href="mailto:elipuccioni@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">elipuccioni@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> OSgeo - Oceania <<a
href="mailto:oceania@lists.osgeo.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">oceania@lists.osgeo.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSGeo Oceania] FOSS4G
Hobart - Elephant in the room ESRI</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi all,</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Even though I did not
attend the conference this year I was
definitely a bit taken aback when I saw ESRI
as a sponsor and completely understand the
feelings of those who have been burned not
only by regional distributors, but also strong
ESRI advocates. However, I believe our
community (especially young and recent
graduates) is made up of many 'converted' ESRI
users, and in some cases we're basically
preaching to the choir. I see this as
a positive step, where it opens the
opportunity to build a bridge to many
individuals on the other side who are just as
passionate about their work and looking to
belong to a community as awesome as ours. At
the end of the day, we all utilise what works
for us, whether open or commercial. I
definitely sound naive, but as Eli has
mentioned, I've also learned to value and
trust individuals over large (and sometimes
scary) organisations, and I think it would be
a step back to close our community off to
organisations such as ESRI, which could also
make individuals associated feel unwelcome.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This discussion is
incredibly valuable, and I hope it continues
as it would be useful for the organising
committee for next year's global FOSS4G in
Auckland!</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Vinaka,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Carrol</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 at
11:12, eli via Oceania <<a
href="mailto:oceania@lists.osgeo.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">oceania@lists.osgeo.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:8pt;line-height:106%"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:106%;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">Thanks
to Andrew and everyone else who has
contributed to this discussion. It seems
to have stirred quite a reaction in the
community, and it’s important to address
it.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:8pt;line-height:106%"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:106%;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">As
Alex pointed out, the committee's
decisions are somewhat separate from the
board. That said, I personally supported
this initiative. Like many of you, I’ve
been ‘burned’ by ESRI regional
distributors, who in some countries
actively try (and sometimes succeed) to
poach potential clients. This creates
significant damage to small companies like
mine, all for a few thousand dollars that
likely don’t even cover their Christmas
party expenses.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:8pt;line-height:106%"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:106%;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">However,
I was thrilled to have Kate Fickas as one
of our (all female) keynote speakers. In
my opinion, she’s an amazing person who
genuinely cares about community building,
as demonstrated through her Ladies of
Landsat group and her ongoing activism on
social media. She’s also a long-time
friend of FOSS4G OO, having been a keynote
speaker at our online 2021 conference,
waking up at an ungodly hour to help us
deliver quality content during a
challenging time. It’s also worth noting
that she was selected and agreed to be a
keynote speaker for the Hobar conference
before anyone considered having ESRI as a
sponsor.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:8pt;line-height:106%"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:106%;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">From
what I understand, Kate played a pivotal
role in encouraging ESRI to sponsor the
conference, as one of her roles is
community building. I recognise that some
may view this as an attempt from ESRI to
interfere in our community, and I don’t
want to be naïve and discard that
possibility. Nevertheless, I tend to value
and trust individuals over large
organizations. My experience has shown
that we shouldn’t judge people’s
intentions and behaviour based solely on
the companies they work for.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:8pt;line-height:106%"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:106%;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">We
have talented, passionate members in our
community who work for ‘questionable’ big
companies, and we embrace them. If we cut
off ESRI, should we also discuss those
other companies? Perhaps, and I’d be happy
to contribute to that conversation. But if
we accept contributions from other
companies, why not try to build a bridge
with ESRI, which is undeniably doing good
things with GDAL and in the OSM world?
Additionally, having ESRI at our
conference could attract to the OS world
people and countries that primarily use
ESRI software, like the Cook Islands.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:8pt;line-height:106%"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:106%;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">For
these reasons, I was pleased that the
committee decided to explore this
bridge-building opportunity at the
conference. I thoroughly enjoyed Kate’s
keynote address and our discussions, as
she had many interesting and practical
ideas for empowering specific members of
our community, including women and
non-native English speakers.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt;line-height:106%"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:106%;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">That
said, what matters most to me is our
community. I want it to thrive, grow, and
feel comfortable and safe above all else.
I’m more than willing to advocate against
ESRI sponsorship in the future if the
majority feels it’s a threat rather than
an opportunity. OO exists because of all
of you, and your needs always come first
in our decisions. Let’s continue this
discussion and see where it leads us.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:8pt;line-height:106%"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:106%;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">Cheers,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:8pt;line-height:106%"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:106%;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">Elisa</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Il giorno gio 21 nov
2024 alle ore 10:32 Alex Leith via Oceania
<<a
href="mailto:oceania@lists.osgeo.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">oceania@lists.osgeo.org</a>>
ha scritto:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Andrew</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for raising
this, and I'm glad we're having the
discussion.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The local
organising committee for FOSS4G SotM
Oceania operates independently of the
Board, even though some on the
committee may be Board members. And as
a committee, we talked a lot about
decisions on keynotes, making sure we
were bringing the right influence to
the event, the right "vibe". We talked
less about sponsors, really, and that
was mostly delegated to the
sponsorship team (which was mostly
Nick Forbes-Smith and me).</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">So, there are two
separate items here, as you note. Kate
Fickas was invited as a keynote
speaker because she's been an
incredible advocate for women and I
think her keynote was really good. She
spoke about specific initiatives, like
how she worked with others in the USGS
to get Virginia T. Norwood
recognition as the person who actually
invented Landsat!</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The Esri
sponsorship came up separately, though
I think Kate may have encouraged it.
And Esri were able to justify their
sponsorship internally due to their
support for the SotM component of our
conference. Kate acknowledged in her
keynote that Esri uses open source
software in their applications. It's
worth noting that Esri supported the
GDAL Barnraising efforts in a
significant way (<a
href="https://gdalbarn.com/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://gdalbarn.com/</a>.)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Now, I know that
some have been burned by Esri
resellers doing things that are not
good, and there's a lot of hard
feelings around. I don't discount that
at all. But I feel as a community we
should keep the gate open. We need
support from business to make the
conference happen, and we'll need it
for the global event next year in a
big way. Other organisations that may
sponsor may or may have imperfect
reputations in some areas, but good
people work in all of these
organisations. I believe it’s
reasonable to welcome sponsorship from
any organisation, provided they agree
to our code of conduct and other
reasonable conditions set by the
community.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">My honest personal
take is that we should expect sponsors
to not be anti-open source and not be
anti-competitive. But I think we
should hold ourselves to similar
standards. The era of militant
anti-proprietary software movements
has largely passed, and in many ways,
we’ve already won. As I mentioned
during the “pitch a future” session at
the conference, the open movement
feels inevitable. Microsoft’s journey
from labeling open source a “virus” to
embracing it wholeheartedly is a prime
example. Should we have rejected
Microsoft's contributions to past
events?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Kind regards,</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, 21 Nov 2024
at 02:53, Andrew Jeffrey via Oceania
<<a
href="mailto:oceania@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">oceania@lists.osgeo.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi All,</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I hope everyone
that was able to attend the FOSS4G
SOTM Oceania Hobart conference had
a great time. I'm still very much
bummed that I wasn't able to make
it down there and my only start at
the OO conference remains
Melbourne in 2018. I plan on
improving my numbers as best I can
into the future, but from the
outside looking in, it looked like
all those that attended had a
blast - well done conference
committee and OO board.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am writing to
the list because I have a question
that has been bugging me ever
since I talked to a colleague who
attended the event. That question
is "What's the deal with ESRI
being a sponsor?". I have genuine
curiosity when it comes to the
decision process in having them on
board. I understand these things
take money to put on and the
conference needs to turn a profit,
a healthy conference makes for a
healthy OO which allows the
organisation to do many of the
great things that they do.
However, I think this sponsorship
from ESRI should be reconsidered
in the future.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Just to be
clear, I am not opposed to
speakers who work for ESRI coming
and talking, from all reports the
keynote from Kate Fickas was
amazing (as were all the keynotes
from what I hear) and these are
the industry people that we all
crave to hear from - top job in
landing that line up! But as for
sponsorship I feel that ESRI is
putting their brand on a community
that a lot of us turned to when
looking for refuge from them.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I acknowledge
that my opinion on this is biased
as a QGIS advocate and trainer.
But something about this just
feels off! I don't see what's in
it for the FOSS4G community having
ESRI involved in our conferences,
to me it looks more of a cheap way
for them to buy some good news
without doing anything to improve
the relationship with the FOSS4G
community. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">However, I know
I wasn't there, and I could be
wrong about the whole thing. Maybe
the overwhelming opinion is that
it's a good thing and this is a
step in the right direction? I
would be interested in hearing
what people think and even hearing
from someone on the conference
organising committee that has more
knowledge about this. Is this
something the conference would do
again? Is there a limit to their
involvement? What would have
happened if they were a platinum
sponsor and got the primary logo
placement + verbal mention at
opening and closing of the event?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Andrew</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Oceania mailing list<br>
<a
href="mailto:Oceania@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Oceania@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<a
href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania</a></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>-- </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Alex Leith</span></b></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">m: +61 419 189 050</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://auspatious.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">https://auspatious.com</span></a></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Oceania mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Oceania@lists.osgeo.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Oceania@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<a
href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania</a></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<span>-- </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Potrebbe andar
peggio...potrebbe piovere!</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Oceania mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Oceania@lists.osgeo.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Oceania@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<a
href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania</a></p>
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_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href="mailto:Oceania@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Oceania@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<a
href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania</a><br>
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_______________________________________________<br>
Oceania mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Oceania@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Oceania@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania</a><br>
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<span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br>
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<div><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><b>Alex Leith</b><br>
</font></div>
<font face="verdana, sans-serif">m: +61 419 189 050</font>
<div><a href="https://auspatious.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">https://auspatious.com</font></a></div>
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<br>
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<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
Oceania mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Oceania@lists.osgeo.org">Oceania@lists.osgeo.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania</a>
</pre>
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