First off, let me reiterate that I'm not in any way against OL PSC taking on this<br>role, nor do I have any doubt of anyone's ability to deal with these responsibilities.<br><br>My objection is purely theoretical (and perhaps incredibly ill-worded, sorry :-)<br>
<br>What I'm trying to get at is the sense of "responsibility" in this whole process.<br><br>Perhaps I am leaping from the wrong foot, but my assumption here is that, on the one hand, the idea of assigning "governance" to the OL PSC is that it's a way of having a group of people who've already been there, done that look after and help out the new guy... but on the other hand, it's also a way for OSGEO to delegate the responsibility for making sure that the new guy follows all the rules. Yes?<br>
<br>It's the second case that to me seems like it's in jeopardy when the new guys happen to also be the governors. It's like allowing employees to sign off on their own expense reports.... it's essentially saying "we have complete trust in him/her".... and if that's the case, then what's the use of siging off at all?<br>
<br>If GeoExt gets a really great contribution but can't get a CLA for it -- for whatever reason -- then what is to stop their "governors" on the OL PSC from glossing over that detail and allowing the patch to go in anyways? Why require governers at all? Maybe we add a clause that says "Any project led by PSC members of an official OSGEO project are exempt from enlisting another project for governance." Maybe that is essentially what everyone wants? <br>
<br>Again, please don't interpret this as a character assault on any of the proposed double-PSC members. I personally trust all of you and have doubt that you would "do the right thing" in this situation.... which is to say you would unquestionably have my vote on this measure. I'm just surprised that OSGEO policy would allow this sort of thing. <br>
<br><br><br><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 00:47, Tim Schaub <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tschaub@opengeo.org" target="_blank">tschaub@opengeo.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Hey-<br>
<br>
Erik Uzureau wrote:<br>
<div><div></div><div>><br>
><br>
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 11:33, Tim Schaub wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hey-<br>
><br>
> Erik Uzureau wrote:<br>
> > So from this mail and reading the two links... it sounds like the<br>
> impact<br>
> > for OL PSC<br>
> > would be that we must make sure that:<br>
> ><br>
> > 1) GeoExt has a OSGeo-friendly license (and doesn't change it)<br>
> > 2) All contributors to GeoExt project have signed CLA<br>
> > 3) GeoExt remains Geo-related.<br>
> ><br>
> > Seems like (1) and (3) are essentially a one-time deal. (2), however,<br>
> > would imply someone from OL PSC monitoring all GeoExt commits<br>
> > and double-checking to see that CLAs are on file for the committer<br>
> > or in the event that the committer is merely acting as a reviewer,<br>
> > then for the originator of the patch.<br>
> ><br>
><br>
> Thanks for the response Erik. I think you've described the practical<br>
> implications well.<br>
><br>
> > None of this seems particularly difficult or time consuming.<br>
> ><br>
> > My immediate question, though, is "can a member of the OL PSC<br>
> > act in any of these roles if they are also a member of the GeoExt<br>
> > PSC (or general community)?"<br>
><br>
> Sure. This is what I was imagining.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Really? I'd maybe put that one to the good people at OSGEO before<br>
> declaring a victory. I don't wanna be a sourpuss, but to me this has<br>
> hints of some sort of wierd rotary-clubesque golden parachuting.<br>
><br>
<br>
</div></div>Yes, really.<br>
<div><br>
> I mean, correct me if I'm wrong here, but even barring the above<br>
> conflict-of-interest issue, there just doesn't seem to be any sense<br>
> of *real* responsibility happenning at any stage of this game, does<br>
> there?<br>
<br>
</div>I'm curious what sort of conflict of interest you see. Eric Lemoine and<br>
I serve on project steering committees for both OpenLayers and GeoExt.<br>
My interests in both capacities are very much aligned. My<br>
responsibilities on the OL PSC are to make sure that project continues<br>
to flourish and that it continues to meet the criteria of an OSGeo<br>
member project. As a member of the GeoExt PSC, I am interested in<br>
seeing that project grow into a candidate for OSGeo membership. I<br>
imagine the same is true for Eric.<br>
<br>
The idea for proposing that the OpenLayers PSC assist in the governance<br>
of GeoExt was suggested by Frank Warmerdam (copied here) when we asked<br>
for advice on assigning copyright for the GeoExt codebase to OSGeo.<br>
<br>
I am comfortable assuming the responsibilities of a PSC member for both<br>
projects. Does anyone else see a conflict here? To me it seems like a<br>
very sensible way for the OpenLayers PSC to be able to accept the role<br>
of assisting in GeoExt governance. (If the OpenLayers PSC had no<br>
relation to the GeoExt PSC, I imagine it would be harder to accept this<br>
responsibility.)<br>
<br>
Tim<br>
<br>
Start of thread:<br>
<a href="http://n2.nabble.com/proposal-for-GeoExt-governance-td2477185.html" target="_blank">http://n2.nabble.com/proposal-for-GeoExt-governance-td2477185.html</a><br>
<div><br>
><br>
> Erik<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Governance in this case is largely about asking for evidence that<br>
> guidelines are being met.<br>
><br>
> ><br>
> > If the answer is "yes", and either Tim or Eric (who I know are both<br>
> > involved in GeoExt) would like to take on the responsibilities, then<br>
> > I don't see any reason for the OL PSC *not* to approve this.<br>
> ><br>
> > If the answer is "no", then a suitable chaperone among the uninvolved<br>
> > on the OL PSC will have to step up.<br>
> ><br>
> > Are there any side effects to this that are not being listed<br>
> here? I mean,<br>
> > whether the answer to my above question is "yes" or "no", it<br>
> doesn't seem<br>
> > like OL PSC really has anything to *lose* either way.... maybe I'm<br>
> > missing something?<br>
> ><br>
><br>
> I don't think there are implications that you are missing. If there is<br>
> no more discussion, I'll ask for a vote tomorrow.<br>
><br>
> Tim<br>
><br>
> > Erik<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 23:54, Tim Schaub <<a href="mailto:tschaub@opengeo.org" target="_blank">tschaub@opengeo.org</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:tschaub@opengeo.org" target="_blank">tschaub@opengeo.org</a>><br>
</div><div><div></div><div>> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:tschaub@opengeo.org" target="_blank">tschaub@opengeo.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:tschaub@opengeo.org" target="_blank">tschaub@opengeo.org</a>>>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > Hey-<br>
> ><br>
> > GeoExt is a project that aims to provide an Ext based toolkit for<br>
> > developing applications with OpenLayers. The library will<br>
> extend Ext<br>
> > widgets and data management classes with mapping<br>
> functionality from<br>
> > OpenLayers.<br>
> ><br>
> > The GeoExt project steering committee and existing users and<br>
> developers<br>
> > are interested in assigning copyright for the GeoExt code<br>
> base to the<br>
> > OSGeo foundation. For OSGeo to accept copyright, it would be<br>
> ideal if<br>
> > an existing OSGeo project could participate in the governance<br>
> of the<br>
> > GeoExt project.<br>
> ><br>
> > Our hope (as the GeoExt PSC) is that the OpenLayers PSC would<br>
> accept<br>
> > this responsibility. Exactly what "participate in the<br>
> governance" means<br>
> > is a little hard to nail down. I've put together a proposal<br>
> with a bit<br>
> > more specific language:<br>
> ><br>
> > <a href="http://www.geoext.org/trac/geoext/wiki/governance" target="_blank">http://www.geoext.org/trac/geoext/wiki/governance</a><br>
> ><br>
> > I'd like to open discussion on this proposal and get a vote<br>
> from the<br>
> > OpenLayers PSC some time next week.<br>
> ><br>
> > What this means for the OpenLayers PSC:<br>
> ><br>
> > The OpenLayers PSC requires that the GeoExt PSC provides<br>
> evidence that<br>
> > GeoExt is following the criteria for becoming an OSGeo member<br>
> project<br>
> > (as far as I can tell, this is best described here<br>
> > <a href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Labs#Criteria" target="_blank">http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Labs#Criteria</a>).<br>
> ><br>
> > In practice, this will mean that the OpenLayers PSC will<br>
> request that<br>
> > the GeoExt PSC provide information on contributors and signed<br>
> > contributor license agreements, and that the GeoExt PSC<br>
> maintains the<br>
> > "geospatial" nature of the project.<br>
> ><br>
> > Questions and feedback welcome.<br>
> > Tim<br>
> ><br>
> > --<br>
> > Tim Schaub<br>
> > OpenGeo - <a href="http://opengeo.org" target="_blank">http://opengeo.org</a><br>
> > Expert service straight from the developers.<br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > Dev mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:Dev@openlayers.org" target="_blank">Dev@openlayers.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Dev@openlayers.org" target="_blank">Dev@openlayers.org</a>><br>
</div></div>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Dev@openlayers.org" target="_blank">Dev@openlayers.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Dev@openlayers.org" target="_blank">Dev@openlayers.org</a>>><br>
<div><div></div><div>> > <a href="http://openlayers.org/mailman/listinfo/dev" target="_blank">http://openlayers.org/mailman/listinfo/dev</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Tim Schaub<br>
> OpenGeo - <a href="http://opengeo.org" target="_blank">http://opengeo.org</a><br>
> Expert service straight from the developers.<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Dev mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Dev@openlayers.org" target="_blank">Dev@openlayers.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Dev@openlayers.org" target="_blank">Dev@openlayers.org</a>><br>
> <a href="http://openlayers.org/mailman/listinfo/dev" target="_blank">http://openlayers.org/mailman/listinfo/dev</a><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Tim Schaub<br>
OpenGeo - <a href="http://opengeo.org" target="_blank">http://opengeo.org</a><br>
Expert service straight from the developers.<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br>