<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY text=#000000 bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=562133621-24022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Hi Christopher,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=562133621-24022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=562133621-24022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>to use Mikas word</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=562133621-24022009>"</SPAN>Don't you dare.
95 % of your answers is pure help and the rest.. yep I would say that the rest
is enjoyable reading.<SPAN class=562133621-24022009>"</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=562133621-24022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=562133621-24022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Your responses are sometimes very to a point, but I would
miss this ones. And naturally would miss the responses, that enhance my
knowledge of OpenLayers.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=562133621-24022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=de dir=ltr align=left><SPAN
class=562133621-24022009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I like the
OpenLayers API and i'm again and again impressed, what is possible. I have also
own ideas how to use the API (could be seen in online applications). I'm able
to modify OpenLayers functions and overwrite the originals for my
purposes.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=de dir=ltr align=left><SPAN
class=562133621-24022009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=de dir=ltr align=left><SPAN
class=562133621-24022009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>But I don't
understand enough of object orientated javascript (especially the
OpenLayers API), to contribute ideas, examples, documentations or patches
to the list. So what I do, is following the discussion here and sometimes on the
developer list, to learn more about OpenLayers. And if possible, response
to questions I mean I have an answer.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=de dir=ltr align=left><SPAN
class=562133621-24022009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=de dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Arial><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN class=562133621-24022009>Arnd
Wippermann</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=de dir=ltr align=left><SPAN
class=562133621-24022009> </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=de dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
</DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=de dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2><B>Von:</B> users-bounces@openlayers.org
[mailto:users-bounces@openlayers.org] <B>Im Auftrag von </B>Mika
Lehtonen<BR><B>Gesendet:</B> Dienstag, 24. Februar 2009 22:10<BR><B>An:</B>
Christopher Schmidt<BR><B>Cc:</B> users@openlayers.org<BR><B>Betreff:</B> Re:
[OpenLayers-Users] Intuitive and good looking icons<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR><BR>Christopher Schmidt kirjoitti:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:20090224203737.GF6076@metacarta.com type="cite"><PRE wrap="">On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 10:17:56PM +0200, Mika Lehtonen wrote:
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">Christopher Schmidt kirjoitti:
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">attitude is everything when communicating with
a mailing list
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap="">Shouldn't that also concern developers?
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""><!---->
Absolutely; and developers like me who are rude end up paying for it.
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">I am asking this because I've been noticing that in OL-users list there
are time to time so hostile responses to the users ideas that for
example I haven't ever experienced such in the Geoserver users list.
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""><!---->
Is this thread an example? Do you have other examples? (Are they all me?
In which case, that's fair, and I should probably just get off the users
list.)
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't like digging old dirt. This was just a feeling
based thought.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:20090224203737.GF6076@metacarta.com type="cite"><PRE wrap=""> </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">I think that all the users throwing ideas in the list are just trying
to make things better, not to question developers competence or
ability to do their work.
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""><!---->
I think that many users of OpenLayers consider it to be the
responsibility of someone else to fix their problems. I think that's a
silly expectation, and I don't feel that it's neccesary to entertain all
ideas that come -- since for every idea that comes with code behind it,
10 more come in as "Wouldn't it be nice if?"
There are many things that would be nice, but given that a huge majority
of OpenLayers development is done by a very small core of developers,
with limited contribution from people who wish that things would somehow
magically get better, the social environment degrades. This thread is an
example of that, in my opinion.
<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://openlayers.org/pipermail/users/2009-February/010300.html">http://openlayers.org/pipermail/users/2009-February/010300.html</A> is
another case where I blew up.
In fact, reviewing the OL-users list, I see that I respond an order of
magnitude more times than all other trunk OL developers combined. If
there is a feeling that developers are being rude to users, then that
can only be coming from my behavior. I think that's a sign that I
shouldn't be on the users mailing list anymore. Thank you for pointing
that out to me; from here foreward, I will shy away from responding the
users list.
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>Don't you dare. 95 % of your answers is pure help and the
rest.. yep I would say that the rest is enjoyable reading.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:20090224203737.GF6076@metacarta.com type="cite"><PRE wrap=""> </PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">Yeah, it easily happens that you come up with a superb idea and share
it in the list without thinking how to put it in there or
reconsidering how superb it really is. But one shouldn't take it as an
insult or yelling. In my opinion, everyone should have one vote,
regardless of whether you are a developer or an user, to vote for
things and features you like. After all, it isn't just developers who
are making open source (software) possible.
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""><!---->
It is my belief that everyone who is contributing code should
absolutely get one vote.</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>I disagree. You know I like
metaphoras. I think that open source software development is like motor racing.
Developers are engineers who build the chassis and suspension and motor and tune
them up as good as they can. Users are those arragant drivers who come and test
the car and after that tell what they think it could be done better. Some of
them just say: this is too slow, others may have an idea of getting more revs
out of the engine. But most of them have no idea how to implement these
improvements. They come and go. But engineers stay all night and build new
engines. Some times they get bitter of hearing nothing but complaining. But deep
in their hearts they enjoy the excitement and the joy of success of what they
are doing. Either of these groups wouldn't exists without another. No real
progress is made without feed back. Criticism is a good concept, if you take it
that way. Sarcasm sucks.<BR><BR>- mika -<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:20090224203737.GF6076@metacarta.com type="cite"><PRE wrap="">
Regards,
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>