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    <p>Jochen,</p>
    <p>I just looked at your shapefiles. The issue is not with the CRS.
      It is with the actual geometry coordinates. They are all in the
      [0,1000] x [0,1000] range, which is totally outside of the area of
      validity of the CRS (the false easting / northing valus of the CRS
      are 400,000, so close to 0, you're 400 km off the center of the
      projection). So displaying it offboard of France is the *right*
      thing to do. There must be have some processing done at some point
      on your original shapefiles to alter their coordinates and
      normalize them to [0,1000].<br>
    </p>
    <p>Even<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 25/09/2024 à 17:04, Jochen Albrecht
      a écrit :<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAKRQQ2R9OkBzTj=k3RCUveb0XxroA72SNNQCsHmPAkDP-TLJww@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div>Dear Brian:</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">how
          is it that you have never reached out before today?</blockquote>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Because the problem occured only this week and I spent the
          last two days trying to figure out what is going on. The last
          time I used this lab exercise was a year ago, and hence with
          OSgeo-Live v15. </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">did
          you take any steps to identify what projection system is being
          used to misplace this shp file?</blockquote>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>QGIS (as well as ArcGIS) claim that they are using the
          correct coordinate system.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">did
          you try to install and run any other version of QGIS on this
          version 16 base, in any way?</blockquote>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>No, I did not because I am trying to avoid this for the
          sake of not killing the carefully aligned libraries of
          OSgeo-Live.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>I am attaching the mini archive of the sample data that now
          causes these problems. I am also attaching screenshots of the
          automatic pop-up window when I load the same file into the
          stand-alone version of QGIS, which prompts me to confirm a
          coordinate system transformation procedure.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Cheers,</div>
        <div>      Jochen</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><img src="cid:part1.7utqfj4E.Pkiaa78k@spatialys.com"
            alt="transform1.png" style="margin-right: 25px;" class=""><br>
        </div>
        <div><img src="cid:part2.6pORIwrQ.57pH3VCZ@spatialys.com"
            alt="transform2.png" style="margin-right: 25px;" class=""><br>
        </div>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Sep 24, 2024 at
            7:22 PM Brian M Hamlin <<a
              href="mailto:maplabs@light42.com" target="_blank"
              moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">maplabs@light42.com</a>>
            wrote:<br>
          </div>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
            <div>
              <p>Dear Dr Albrecht -</p>
              <p>  this is the first time I have heard of this issue.. 
                we are building the newer, alpha1 version 17 now using a
                newer QGIS LTS.  Due to this combination of factors,
                your email raises more questions</p>
              <p>* how is it that you have never reached out before
                today?  no one on the #osgeolive team can know all the
                places that the disk is used. If I understand, this
                condition of one particular QGIS misplacing a shp file
                would have been the case on the day that version 16 was
                released?  therefore you have taught many times yet
                never one email here. Why now, on the week that we start
                the anticipated alpha1 version 17 based on Ubuntu noble
                and GDAL v3.9x.</p>
              <p>* did you take any steps to identify what projection
                system is being used to misplace this shp file?  for
                example, does it say in the bottom corner of the window
                of QGIS ?  do you have any guesses as to what the errant
                projection might be, and if so did you include that in
                your description of this bug, below?  maybe I  missed a
                section.. <br>
              </p>
              <p>* did you try to install and run any other version of
                QGIS on this version 16 base, in any way?  I am not a
                QGIS expert but I am guessing there are several
                alternatives that would install something.</p>
              <p>   today I am busy running and testing a build of
                #osgeolive 17, which promises improvements and
                stability.. as with the dozen or so #osgeolive linux
                that have shipped reliably, without cost to you, for the
                last decade.</p>
              <p>   --Brian M Hamlin    /  MAPLABS  /  OSGeoLive PSC</p>
              <p><br>
              </p>
              <p><br>
              </p>
              <div>On 9/24/24 11:13, Jochen Albrecht via osgeolive
                wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite">
                <div dir="ltr">
                  <div>Hi</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>I am teaching with the latest version of
                    OSgeo-Live 16, which runs QGIS 3.28.</div>
                  <div>I am using for my class a small demo shapefile,
                    which happens to be in EPSG:31287 (Austria, Styria).
                    QGIS 3.28 places this file into the Mediterranean
                    Sea, off the coast of Italy/France.</div>
                  <div>Earlier versions of QGIS (in previous years of
                    teaching), as well as my current stand-alone version
                    3.36 are placing the data correctly into the
                    province of Styria in Austria. The problem occurs
                    only in version 3.28.</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>The problem is aggravated by the fact that any
                    attempt at transforming the data is rendered futile
                    in this particular version of QGIS because none of
                    the reprojection dialogues allow me to specify a
                    transformation. I even tried to define a new
                    coordinate system using the transformation
                    parameters given by QGIS 3.38 (see the bottom of
                    this email). Applying these, places the data again
                    into the Mediterranean.</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>I have been teaching with QGIS for over 20 years,
                    and this is a new one for me. The easy solution
                    would be to just not use version QGIS 3.28. But it
                    is the one that has been burned into the current
                    OSgeo-Live distribution. The whole purpose of
                    OSgeo-Live is to work with versions of the
                    individual software packages that have proven to
                    play nice with each other and I do not want to
                    experiment and have students upgrade to a
                    newer version of GIS.</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>At this point, I am at a loss to advise my
                    students what to do, or to even explain what is
                    happening here. It is as if the particular
                    coordinate system library for this version has a bug
                    that nobody has come across before. Am I missing
                    something?</div>
                  <div>Last minute update: the same error occurs in the
                    latest version of ArcGIS Pro 3.3. I have no idea
                    what those two have in common, but it suggests to me
                    that it has something to do with a flawed coordinate
                    system library rather than the application software
                    itself.</div>
                  <div>Again, any suggestion for how to address this (or
                    even explain it to my students) would be
                    appreciated.</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Cheers,</div>
                  <div>      Jochen</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>
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                                    <p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="font-family:Arial;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Dr. Jochen Albrecht, GISP (he/him/his)</span></p>
                                    <p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Professor for Computational and Theoretical Geography</span></p>
                                    <p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><a
href="http://www.geo.hunter.cuny.edu/" target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline">Department
                                          of Geography and Environmental
                                          Science</span></a><br>
                                    </p>
                                    <p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Hunter College CUNY</span></p>
                                    <p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">695 Park Avenue</span></p>
                                    <p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">New York, NY 10065</span></p>
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style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Immediate Past-President, </span><a
                                        href="https://www.gisci.org/"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:rgb(17,85,204);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">GIS Certification Institute</span></a></p>
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                            <span>Recently published: </span><a
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                                color="#0000ff">GIS and Housing:
                                Principles and Practices</font></a><b><br>
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</pre>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.spatialys.com">http://www.spatialys.com</a>
My software is free, but my time generally not.</pre>
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