<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div></div><div>Hi Arnulf,</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for your detailed assessment. ...and yes, I did read to the bottom ;-)</div><div><br></div><div>I would like to see a response to your questions from Timo, or another representative of the Oskari community. In particular a response to the issues of open communities and decision making.</div><div><br></div><div>From what I’ve viewed on the project website, Oskari has considerable potential. However, good software is only part of the picture.</div><div><br></div><div>Having a good, strong, healthy and active community that is diverse and uses open processes will help the project to survive when funding from the major sponsor ceases.</div><div><br></div><div>Kind regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Bruce</div><div><br></div><div><br>On 6 Jul 2018, at 03:02, Cameron Shorter <<a href="mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com">cameron.shorter@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<p>Arnulf, to answer your question at the bottom, yes I read to the
bottom, and really appreciate your detailed assessment.</p>
<p>Based on Arnulf's assessment, it sounds like Sskari probably has
a good codebase, with good work from within one organisation, but
is yet to attract engaged external developers. This is a great
milestone, and worth acknowledging. But the "unicorn" projects
that we look for in OSGeo incubation are those with a healthy
community from multiple organisations.</p>
<p>The "extent of collaboration" criteria provides validation of the
quality of the project, and is a very good indicator of long term
sustainability. <br>
</p>
To the Oskari folks, you might want to read this presentation I gave
a while back on business justifications for backing collaboration: <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://cameronshorter.blogspot.com/2017/11/open-source-pitch-for-your-boss.html">http://cameronshorter.blogspot.com/2017/11/open-source-pitch-for-your-boss.html</a><br>
<br>
Without digging into the details any further, I suspect Oskari would
need to work on attracting co-contributors, from multiple
organisations, and we would likely see evidence of this happening by
seeing archive logs of collaborative email lists, or slack or IRC or
similar.<br>
<br>
Warm regards, Cameron<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/7/18 2:11 am, Arnulf Christl
(Metaspatial) wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:a1e99073-1693-4fb3-ce6b-3a5353213fe7@metaspatial.net">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<p>Hi Folks, <br>
</p>
<p>this is an update on the Incubation process of Oskari. <br>
</p>
<p><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Oskari_Incubation_Status">https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Oskari_Incubation_Status</a><br>
</p>
<p>As mentor I am still somewhat hesitant to recommend Oskari for
OSGeo Incubation because I cannot find a good indicator
supporting that there is an open community and communication.
Personally I know some of the current core team and totally
trust them to work in the Open Source way of doing things. But
this may not be quite apparent to anybody not into the project.
<br>
</p>
<p>Oskari is doing a good job posting news and updates to the
OSGeo user list (<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/oskari-user/">https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/oskari-user/</a>)
but the list is not really used by users for any kind of
discussion, help or future development. It feels more like a low
volume announce list (which is totally OK, so please keep it
up). <br>
</p>
<p>How and where is the development being discussed? Who can join
the Oskari Slack channel - or whatever else is used to have
technical and strategic discussions? Are there archives of
discussions and decisions? Do you manage to do this in English
or is it still everything communicated in Finnish? <br>
</p>
<p>In a PSC presentation from December 2016 one bullet-point says
that Oskari may become a project on OSGeo live: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://oskariorg.github.io/files/20161220-Oskari_OSGEO_PSC.pdf">https://oskariorg.github.io/files/20161220-Oskari_OSGEO_PSC.pdf.
<br>
</a></p>
<p>Actually, Incubation is not a requirement, so please feel free
to approach the OSGeo Live team to find out more.<br>
</p>
<p>In the Roadmap document (which in my opinion is actually ery
good) at: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://github.com/oskariorg/oskari-docs/wiki/Roadmap-process">https://github.com/oskariorg/oskari-docs/wiki/Roadmap-process</a>
you say that: <br>
</p>
<p><i>"After communicating with Oskari community the roadmap items
enter Active stage [...]". </i><br>
</p>
<p>Can you give us an example of where and how this has happened? </p>
<p>There are some updates on GitHub issues but it appears to be
mostly internal team members (which is totally OK, is this where
the collaborative aspect of the future development takes place?
<br>
</p>
<p><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://github.com/oskariorg/oskari-docs/labels/roadmap">https://github.com/oskariorg/oskari-docs/labels/roadmap</a></p>
<p>Regarding Code Copyright Review you state that: <br>
</p>
<p><i>All code has been developed by the registered developers
listed on github who have signed the CLA. All external
libraries have project compatible licenses. The project has
been started as a regular Open Source project following the
guidelines as set out by OSGeo. A file-per-file code review
was therefore deemed superfluous. </i></p>
<p>As mentor I can confirm that this is correct and satisfies
OSGeo's requirements (and yes, I did some quick checks on random
code files but due to the well organized origin of the project
did not go through all code like we had to in the GRASS
project... :-).</p>
<p>In the last PSC meeting in December 2017 a decision was taken
to schedule the next meeting "as needed". <br>
</p>
<h2 id="meetingsactivity"><i>Meetings/activity</i></h2>
<i> </i>
<ul>
<li><i>[...]</i></li>
<li><i>future meetings schedule: continue with “as needed” (no
need for a fixed schedule)</i></li>
</ul>
<p>Summarizing the current status: We discussed some of the above
topics before and it is not a requirement for OSGeo Incubation
to have active mailing lists and so on. But it is a requirement
to have an open process and ideally also a somewhat growing user
community. Obviously due its character as a complex portal
platform Oskari is not a software that will have millions of
downloads but a little broader adoption would be nice to see. <br>
</p>
<p>You also say: <br>
</p>
<ul>
<li><i>Slack/Mailinglist can be used more actively to discuss
any issues/voting</i></li>
</ul>
<p><i> </i></p>
<p>If you are not using the Slack channel (which unfortunately is
not open), where is the communication taking place? <br>
</p>
<p>The PSC meeting notes from December 2017 has a list of current
installations / users / contributions. This is good to see. Has
there been any additions, changes over the past half year? <br>
</p>
<br>
Even if you can not produce evidence for any or all of the above
issues I will be happy to recommend Oskari for Incubation if you
believe that this will help the project. Then it will be up to the
Incubation committee to decide whether we can recommend graduation
to the OSGeo Board of Directors. <br>
<p>We will have to expect some discussion on the Incubation list
on the above topics and this is not bad but a sign of a healthy
process. <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<h3>Internal note to the Incubation committee <br>
</h3>
<p>IF you ever made it down to this line and maybe even checked
some of the referenced documents, please be so kind as to
acknowledge this on the mailing list so that we can help Oskari
move on. <br>
</p>
<p> It may also be a good idea to go back to the Incubation
process and check whether it should be revised for certain
aspects (especially requirement on mailing lists / alternatives
like Slack). <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Anything else you need, let me know. <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Thank you, <br>
</p>
<p>Arnulf<br>
</p>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 2018-06-25 um 17:05 schrieb Aarnio
Timo (MML):<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:80151e73759244998920362c3d0a9f1d@C119S212VM036.msvyvi.vaha.local">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered
medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal-compose;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:70.85pt 2.0cm 70.85pt 2.0cm;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Incubator-list!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">We’d like to inquire
about the incubation status of Oskari. What are the next
steps should be in the incubation process? In our end
we’ve done everything we’ve realized that we have to do.
But is there something still wanted from us? Or is the
process in the OSGeo end now? If so, what are the steps
there and is there possibly any estimate when we can think
about graduating?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:FI" lang="EN-US">Timo Aarnio<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Incubator mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Incubator@lists.osgeo.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Incubator@lists.osgeo.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Spatially enabling your business
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://metaspatial.net" moz-do-not-send="true">http://metaspatial.net</a>
</pre>
<!--'"--><br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Incubator mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Incubator@lists.osgeo.org">Incubator@lists.osgeo.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier
Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant
M +61 (0) 419 142 254</pre>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Incubator mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Incubator@lists.osgeo.org">Incubator@lists.osgeo.org</a></span><br><span><a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator</a></span></div></blockquote></body></html>