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<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Let me get this straight:
are the end users the ones using SQL to create these
derived/blended data sets or is the actual creation done by the
support or data library team, who are SQL specialists?<br>
<br>
Ruven Brooks<br>
<br>
<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/25/2020 10:47 AM, Basques, Bob
(CI-StPaul) wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I almost jumped over this thread from the
beginning because I wasn’t understanding the original question
very well, mostly based on my own labels for these types of
services/datasets. I reference things like this as “derived”
data. The actual source data doesn’t exist (unless it gets
cached for performance reasons) but rather it a data blending
via a SQL call.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I agree with other comments here too,
related to this type of product usually being the sort of
thing that can’t be easily done by most GIS apps out of the
box. Also provides for a pipelining of processes of sorts for
sudo processing on the fly.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’ve got a few different examples of this,
some fairly simple, some very complicated that are treated as
datasets by the end users, because the SQL is embed into a
config, like a Mapserver Mapfile for example. More and more
of our datasets are being created in this fashion vs
historically sourcing a “real” dataset directly.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In general the end users are starting to
think and expect this type of analysis approach to the data,
especially related to time indexing and looking at data over
time. Consequently, this is pushing me (us) to start thinking
about time indexing of data and how to store datasets
accordingly.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Bobb<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">postgis-users
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:postgis-users-bounces@lists.osgeo.org"><postgis-users-bounces@lists.osgeo.org></a> on behalf of
Shaozhong SHI <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:shishaozhong@gmail.com"><shishaozhong@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>PostGIS Discussion
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:postgis-users@lists.osgeo.org"><postgis-users@lists.osgeo.org></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, September 25, 2020 at 3:11 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>PostGIS Discussion
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:postgis-users@lists.osgeo.org"><postgis-users@lists.osgeo.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [postgis-users] Promoting PostgreSQL
and PostGIS to wider business intelligence community<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#FF3333">Think
Before You Click:
</span></strong><span style="color:black">This email
originated <strong><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">outside
</span></strong>our organization.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">All very interesting and useful points!
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am also thinking about data
blending and new data production on the data service
platform for supporting the wider Business Intelligence
community.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Surely, we need excellent examples to
show them that we make data ready for their consumption,
and are here to help them.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Shao<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 at 08:37, Andreas
Neumann <<a href="mailto:a.neumann@carto.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">a.neumann@carto.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">In
our GIS team (small team of 10, local government,
province level) we use a lot of SQL in collaboration
with Gradle/GRETL and Jenkins for our automated data
flows and statistics. It is amazing how much
analysis and data aggregation you can do with SQL
only - without having to touch QGIS or ArcGIS or any
other so called "business intelligence" tools (that
are often quite expensive).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Every
new employee that wants to join our team has to have
SQL knowledge - that's a prerequisite - or they
wouldn't get the job. Most of our employees are not
programmers though.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I
also teach PostgreSQL/Postgis training courses (2-3
days usually) - a lot of the participants are not
programmers but still manage to do analysis with
SQL. Typical course participants are scientists,
people working at engineering companies or
government.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">So
- I do think there is a significant number of people
who use SQL, but aren't programmers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Andreas<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p id="gmail-m_-1623993805795734005reply-intro"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">On
2020-09-25 00:09,
<a href="mailto:ruvenml@beamerbrooks.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ruvenml@beamerbrooks.com</a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">I
doubt whether PostGIS has any direct value
whatsoever for desktop application users. At
a very minimum, using PostGIS directly
requires a knowledge of SQL. In fact, the
more knowledge of SQL a user has, the more
powerful PostGIS will be. SQL is usually
taught in a database course which, in many
computer science curriculums, is taught in the
second or third year, not to end users in
another occupation.<br>
<br>
Business intelligence systems such as Power BI
and Tableau can connect directly to PostGIS
data bases and provide end user commands and
operations for querying and modifying those
databases. GIS systems such as ArcGIS and
QGIS provide similar capabilities. End users
can get nearly all of the power of PostGIS
without having to learn anything outside of
the business intelligence system or the GIS
system.
<br>
<br>
PostGIS is probably best reserved for people
who have a programming background and whose
jobs or avocations involve doing things that
are difficult or impossible to do in existing
business intelligence or GIS applications.
There seem to be more than enough people like
that to keep the PostGIS developers quite
busy.<br>
<br>
Ruven Brooks<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">On
9/24/2020 3:58 PM, Shaozhong SHI wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Though
we have got some good examples of serving
data to wider business intelligence
community, we are still interested in
finding excellent, compelling examples for
showing the value of PostgreSQL/PostGIS as
a data service to desktop application
users. <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I
just wonder whether there are excellent
examples, for general users to
appreciate?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
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