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<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi Even, good questions. Might not be” geodesy business” but still helpful.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">>
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">What is the typical format into which you can store those gridded velocities: one of the existing supported grid formats ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty;-qt-block-indent:0"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The grid that I have access to now is in a custom format used in the old Danish transformation library TrLib. It is a
3D-grid, but I would convert that to a 2D-grid in NTv2 format for the horizontal parts and a 1D-grid for the vertical part (gtx-format). So yes, formats already supported by PROJ.4.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The bigger issue here is using the existing code for something else that simple coordinate offsets. If I remember correctly
it is a bit complicated reading a single grid cell value with current setup. A bit of refactoring is probably warranted.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">>
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">So the parameters of this Helmert Transform are always the same for a given grid ? Or per year and/or country ? (this is probably explained in the paper...) If there's just one set
of parameter for the grid, this would perhaps make sense to have a pre-processing script to correct the velocity grid.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty;-qt-block-indent:0"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Yes, always the same parameters. You multiply the grid cells by the timespan from the grid epoch to the desired epoch.
That is why it is possible to create a derived grid. It is the solution I prefer, but it does have the slight problem of not being the official transformation. I don’t mind that per se, but I do think it is best to implement transformations as close as possible
to the original definition.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">>
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Performed when *loading* the grid (ie correcting all values of the grid), or rather performed when selecting the particular velocity of the grid that applies to the coordinate being
transformed ? The former could have performance implications if the grid is big and you need to transform only a couple of coordinates.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty;-qt-block-indent:0"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Implementation detail :-) Your latter proposal would be the way to go.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">>
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Option 3 sounds like a complication in the general framework. Would probably require some parenthesing syntax.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty;-qt-block-indent:0"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Yes. It is not a path I want to go down, unless absolutely forced to. But it *<b>could</b>* solve the problem.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Kristian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Fra:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Even Rouault [mailto:even.rouault@spatialys.com]
<br>
<b>Sendt:</b> 14. september 2017 21:11<br>
<b>Til:</b> proj@lists.maptools.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Kristian Evers <kreve@sdfe.dk><br>
<b>Emne:</b> Re: [Proj] Realigning velocity grid values by Helmert shift - is that normal?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Hi Kristian,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-paragraph-type:empty;-qt-block-indent:0">
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">I have rather questions than feedback than geodesy business feedback ;-)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-paragraph-type:empty;-qt-block-indent:0">
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">> In anticipation of a new velocity model being released soon,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">> the original model is instead used by applying a Helmert shift to the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">> gridded velocities.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-paragraph-type:empty;-qt-block-indent:0">
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">What is the typical format into which you can store those gridded velocities: one of the existing supported grid formats
?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-paragraph-type:empty;-qt-block-indent:0">
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">> The simplest<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">> solution is to just create a new gridded model where the correction has<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">> been applied, and using it with a "velocitygrid" operation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-paragraph-type:empty;-qt-block-indent:0">
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">So the parameters of this Helmert Transform are always the same for a given grid ? Or per year and/or country ? (this is
probably explained in the paper...) If there's just one set of parameter for the grid, this would perhaps make sense to have a pre-processing script to correct the velocity grid.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-paragraph-type:empty;-qt-block-indent:0">
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">> Another option<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">> would be to incorporate the Helmert shift into the velocitygrid operation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">> so that the realignment can be performed when loading the grid.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-paragraph-type:empty;-qt-block-indent:0">
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Performed when *loading* the grid (ie correcting all values of the grid), or rather performed when selecting the particular
velocity of the grid that applies to the coordinate being transformed ? The former could have performance implications if the grid is big and you need to transform only a couple of coordinates.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-paragraph-type:empty;-qt-block-indent:0">
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">> A third<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">> option is to introduces some a form of nested operation in the pipeline<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">> framework.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">> I don't want to make things more complicated than they need to be, so I will<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">> only consider option two and three above if the concept of "realigning<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">> gridded velocity models by Helmert shift" is a somewhat common operation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-paragraph-type:empty;-qt-block-indent:0">
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Option 3 sounds like a complication in the general framework. Would probably require some parenthesing syntax.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-paragraph-type:empty;-qt-block-indent:0">
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Even<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-paragraph-type:empty;-qt-block-indent:0">
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-paragraph-type:empty;-qt-block-indent:0">
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;-qt-block-indent:0;-qt-user-state:0"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">--
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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