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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-NZ link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I’m from NE England and I always mentally pronounced it to rhyme with dodge, with a short /o/ sound.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>To me that’s not ‘correct’ because “Proj” comes from “Projection”, which I would pronounce with a long /oh/ sound.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>However, it <b>is</b> correct because “Proj” is a noun. In typical English prosody with homonymic nouns and verbs,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>the noun is pronounced with a short vowel, the verb with a long vowel.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>e.g.:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>record</span></b><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> (<i>noun</i>) /ˈrɛkɔːd/ - a thing constituting a piece of evidence<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>record</span></b><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> (<i>verb</i>) /rɪˈkɔːd/ - the act of making a record </span><span style='font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>J</span><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Thus:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>project</span></b><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> (<i>noun</i>) /ˈprɒdʒ.ekt/ - an individual or collaborative enterprise that is carefully planned to achieve a particular aim.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>project</span></b><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> (<i>verb</i>) /prəˈdʒekt/ - extend outwards beyond something else<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> PROJ <proj-bounces@lists.osgeo.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Lesparre, Jochem via PROJ<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 28 March 2023 21:09<br><b>To:</b> Thomas Knudsen <knudsen.thomas@gmail.com>; Javier Jimenez Shaw <j1@jimenezshaw.com><br><b>Cc:</b> proj <proj@lists.osgeo.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PROJ] How is PROJ pronounced?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>For me as a non-native English speaker, the pronunciation that rhymes on <b>dodge</b> (ending ‘dzj’; IPA: / dʒ /) seems weird. I (probably wrongly) pronounce the English word <b>projection</b> with way less emphasis on the Z sound and much more emphasis on the J sound (IPA: / dɪ /). So for me, <b>proj</b> almost rhymes with <b>Troy</b> (IPA: / ɪ /). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jochem<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> PROJ <<a href="mailto:proj-bounces@lists.osgeo.org">proj-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Thomas Knudsen<br><b>Sent:</b> maandag 27 maart 2023 21:26<br><b>To:</b> Javier Jimenez Shaw <<a href="mailto:j1@jimenezshaw.com">j1@jimenezshaw.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> proj <<a href="mailto:PROJ@lists.osgeo.org">PROJ@lists.osgeo.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [PROJ] How is PROJ pronounced?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL>To my Danish ears, and following relaxed Danish orthography, PROJ is just the short form of PRÅDTSCHJJJ, when speaking English, and PRÅÅÅY when speaking Danish (give it a try :-) ) , so I can hardly claim to be consistent in the pronunciation... and neither would I encourage anyone else to be: Pronounce it whichever way you feel (even PROOOOOOOOOY, PRUY, or PREJ), but spell it as PROJ :-)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL>Den man. 27. mar. 2023 kl. 16.32 skrev Javier Jimenez Shaw <<a href="mailto:j1@jimenezshaw.com">j1@jimenezshaw.com</a>>:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL>I was not expecting the discussion about the pronunciation of the vowel "o", may fault XD. This can be a never ending topic among native English speakers (to many similar sounds for me).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL>My question was more oriented to the final "j". So far we agree on that. The rhyme with "dodge" is useful.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL>Javier.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL>On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 at 14:18, Paul Harwood <<a href="mailto:runette@gmail.com" target="_blank">runette@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL>Since you have started ...<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL>I am London English and I say it (like you based on that fact it is short for projection) with the same vowel as US "process" and not the vowel from UK "process" ... No one ever said that the English were consistent ... :).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL>But to be honest, the o sounds in English English ( as opposed to Scottish or Welsh or RP) are highly class dependant.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL>No one is ever going to agree about the bowl sounds. The consistent part is that it ends with a hard(-ish) "j"<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL>On Mon, 27 Mar 2023, 13:05 Greg Troxel, <<a href="mailto:gdt@lexort.com" target="_blank">gdt@lexort.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL>Javier Jimenez Shaw <<a href="mailto:j1@jimenezshaw.com" target="_blank">j1@jimenezshaw.com</a>> writes:<br><br>> Recently somebody asked me why do I pronounce PROJ that way.<br>> What I try to say is /ˈprɒdʒ/ ( hear it somehow<br>> <a href="http://secure-web.cisco.com/17A3K7CAU2RJiVItFHp4BXRhILdvh20or5MK4XoQL0ai2FbdZSvyEioO-GOPpx2wlM3hQIEdXwETKl6DFpsfUbWBoogCrOWLOy61C619-nWVnQQCb8-a7keT8nI15J6VcXpjjfLDXnZaiVQkEOGOF4zA1Ae5xYH4pZAL82gxIK9_eTDBoDiVLQFAHekQCzVZdpoRq-zf-OHib0CujWYBvoEeSI7OplzdwqYqZ3NbMDNlaVmjxKg4ebAWM-Zorz-bSKGNuNznw86XEfcXnasFdKbYeiGgKr9R8IjJt34gfg6hsfF9NjY10BU_-CArqLjbacNRgc5roU72cutnMJ1VUhg/http%3A%2F%2Fipa-reader.xyz%2F%3Ftext%3D%25CB%2588pr%25C9%2592d%25CA%2592" target="_blank">http://ipa-reader.xyz/?text=%CB%88pr%C9%92d%CA%92</a> )<br>> Is there any "official" way or consensus about it?<br><br>My opinions have formed in a vacuum separated from actually talking to<br>others, but:<br><br> I see PROJ as sort for "projection".<br><br> I pronounce it as rhyming with "dodge". This has a different vowel<br> and different voicing of the j sound than when I say the word<br> projection.<br><br> I view my pronunciation as the way I expect other native en_US<br> speakers to read it (knowing/guessing "proj is short for projection")<br> without any prior experience. en_CA and maybe en_GB I would maybe<br> expect a long O, but I am pretty sure Gerald Evenden was from the US.<br><br>Relative to the <a href="http://secure-web.cisco.com/1ZNDTKd_pCysVag06IjIHz9yVsWMlgLXbZkfxxCIAbp-k7qvrUxYLnJ_hfTaHrebQL8NTyWIJjUd6iuKernwmEOKxRUlU3snNsc5k1PIITe0OnIhwD4rmy3sa0kcmVzuU3dFK1mlzxkOchRHtEy-YDYre2RdEchwsUtmy8Ksn7cY1qJMyi0rNw_Zjkos4aIJkL_fkDbtyojSCv24We8NouON-LYy2Gg0mrds9mVstX85ZTvMOxB5JtFc4hXib4C1Gs4qsRf3yNnIiS0eAUwhJ1s1bufbz4NeJ1gjKs7I7x64dL_4u1Um_XUqaCQWRTcwEutKF_elIromE8Pphc4D4ew/http%3A%2F%2Fipa-reader.xyz" target="_blank">ipa-reader.xyz</a> "sally - american", I say it faster, with<br>the vowel being maybe 2/3 the length and the j even less. But it's<br>quite close, and I'm from ~Boston so I talk wicked fast compared to<br>people from e.g. Georgia.<br><br>You can hear a shift to a slightly longer O in "brian - british". A<br>Canadian might have a much larger shift to fully long O, the way they<br>would says "process", but I think the short word somewhat avoids that.<br>_______________________________________________<br>PROJ mailing list<br><a href="mailto:PROJ@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">PROJ@lists.osgeo.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/proj" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/proj</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL>_______________________________________________<br>PROJ mailing list<br><a href="mailto:PROJ@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">PROJ@lists.osgeo.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/proj" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/proj</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=NL style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><br><br></span><span lang=NL style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Disclaimer:<br>De inhoud van deze e-mail is vertrouwelijk en uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde(n).<br>Gebruik, openbaarmaking, vermenigvuldiging, verspreiding en/of verstrekking van deze informatie aan derden is niet toegestaan.<br>Op al onze producten en diensten zijn onze algemene leveringsvoorwaarden van toepassing<br>[https://www.kadaster.nl/algemene-leveringsvoorwaarden].<br><br>Disclaimer:<br>This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.<br>If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.<br>Our general terms and conditions of delivery apply to all our products and services<br>[https://www.kadaster.com/general-terms-and-conditions]. </span><span lang=NL style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>