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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thank you Erixen,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">That makes sense, and this agrees with Geoscience Australia calculator
<a href="https://geodesyapps.ga.gov.au/geographic-to-grid">https://geodesyapps.ga.gov.au/geographic-to-grid</a>. This gives the same results as proj 9.2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Robert<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> Erixen Cruz <erixen_cruz@earthbrain.com>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 8, 2024 1:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jonathan Johansen; Robert Denham<br>
<b>Cc:</b> proj@lists.osgeo.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [PROJ] Differences in coordinate transforms from proj 9.1 to 9.2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-line-height-alt:.75pt"><span style="font-size:1.0pt;color:white">I think https: //github. com/OSGeo/PROJ/pull/3621. Before that PR, PROJ did a shift with a geotiff between GDA2020<->GDA94 as an intermediate step for transforming
to WGS84. Now, WGS84 to either GDA is null (no operation). I remember reading <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-line-height-alt:.75pt"><span style="font-size:1.0pt;color:white"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I think <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/OSGeo/PROJ/pull/3621__;!!PUY2jUP3Fp7oEg!F7cBGkbpEaUh7JbDaygWZvd1WOAfMdTnDyS6msuUNaOlDKHHNx3moxenuk25133D5HL9v5A1YwkZdsY0kqWaY3-hT9M-u42MTg$">https://github.com/OSGeo/PROJ/pull/3621</a>.
Before that PR, PROJ did a shift with a geotiff between GDA2020<->GDA94 as an intermediate step for transforming to WGS84. Now, WGS84 to either GDA is null (no operation). I remember reading some bulletin published by an Australian government or agency that
confirms this behaviour is "correct"? That geotiff grid shift is intended only for conversion between 94 and 2020 and not as a more accurate way to get to WGS84.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> PROJ <<a href="mailto:proj-bounces@lists.osgeo.org">proj-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a>> on behalf of Jonathan Johansen via PROJ <<a href="mailto:proj@lists.osgeo.org">proj@lists.osgeo.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, January 7, 2024 8:12:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Robert Denham <<a href="mailto:Robert.Denham@des.qld.gov.au">Robert.Denham@des.qld.gov.au</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:proj@lists.osgeo.org">proj@lists.osgeo.org</a> <<a href="mailto:proj@lists.osgeo.org">proj@lists.osgeo.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [PROJ] Differences in coordinate transforms from proj 9.1 to 9.2</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Oh, I'd be interested in the cause of this too, please, as a user located in Aus who updated to PROJ 9 not too long ago.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 10:47 AM Robert Denham via PROJ <<a href="mailto:proj@lists.osgeo.org">proj@lists.osgeo.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">This is probably just an improvement, but I was wondering if someone could help explain minor differences we're observing when transforming coordinates from WGS 84 geographic coordinates to projected coordinates
in Australia. <br>
<br>
For example, if I do:<br>
<br>
echo -27.495159464576993 153.02971160860926|<br>
docker run -i --rm --env PROJ_DEBUG=4 --env PROJ_NETWORK=ON osgeo/proj:9.2.0 \<br>
cs2cs epsg:4326 +to epsg:28356<br>
<br>
I get:<br>
<br>
pj_open_lib(proj.ini): call fopen(/usr/share/proj/proj.ini) - succeeded<br>
pj_open_lib(proj.db): call fopen(/usr/share/proj/proj.db) - succeeded<br>
pj_open_lib(au_icsm_GDA94_GDA2020_conformal_and_distortion.tif): call fopen(/usr/share/proj/au_icsm_GDA94_GDA2020_conformal_and_distortion.tif) - succeeded<br>
pj_open_lib(au_icsm_GDA94_GDA2020_conformal_and_distortion.tif): call fopen(/usr/share/proj/au_icsm_GDA94_GDA2020_conformal_and_distortion.tif) - succeeded<br>
502934.82 6958719.00 0.00<br>
Using coordinate operation Inverse of GDA94 to WGS 84 (1) + Map Grid of Australia zone 56<br>
<br>
But if I do the same with version 9.1.1:<br>
<br>
echo -27.495159464576993 153.02971160860926|<br>
docker run -i --rm --env PROJ_DEBUG=4 --env PROJ_NETWORK=ON osgeo/proj:9.1.1 \<br>
cs2cs epsg:4326 +to epsg:28356<br>
<br>
I get a slightly different output:<br>
<br>
502934.23 6958717.61 0.00<br>
<br>
<br>
And a large amount of output (see below)<br>
<br>
I just wanted to check whether this was expected behaviour, and if the difference in the coordinate transformation could be interpreted as an improvement?<br>
I checked other projected coordinates systems, including <br>
<br>
* GDA2020 Zone 56 (EPSG:7856)<br>
* Australian Albers GDA94 (EPSG:3755)<br>
* Australian Albers GDA2020 (EPSG:9473)<br>
<br>
Each of these give slightly different results under proj 9.1.1 and 9.2.0. The only relevant change I could see in proj was EPSG updated to EPSG 10.082 in proj 9.2. I assume this is the source of the differences?<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
Robert<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
(output from cs2cs with proj 9.1.1 follows)<br>
<br>
pj_open_lib(proj.ini): call fopen(/usr/share/proj/proj.ini) - succeeded<br>
pj_open_lib(proj.db): call fopen(/usr/share/proj/proj.db) - succeeded<br>
pj_open_lib(au_icsm_GDA94_GDA2020_conformal_and_distortion.tif): call fopen(/usr/share/proj/au_icsm_GDA94_GDA2020_conformal_and_distortion.tif) - succeeded<br>
pipeline: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
pipeline: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=GRS80<br>
pipeline: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
pipeline: pj_ellipsoid - final: <br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Building arg list for step no. 0<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: init - proj=axisswap, 2<br>
pipeline: order=2,1<br>
axisswap: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
axisswap: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=GRS80<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Step 0 (proj=axisswap) at 0x562104a31020<br>
pipeline: Pipeline at [0x562104bc7f60]: step at [0x562104a31020] (proj=axisswap) done<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Building arg list for step no. 1<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: init - proj=unitconvert, 3<br>
pipeline: xy_in=deg<br>
pipeline: xy_out=rad<br>
unitconvert: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
unitconvert: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=GRS80<br>
unitconvert: xy_in unit: Degree<br>
unitconvert: xy_out unit: Radian<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Step 1 (proj=unitconvert) at 0x56210470c510<br>
pipeline: Pipeline at [0x562104bc7f60]: step at [0x56210470c510] (proj=unitconvert) done<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Building arg list for step no. 2<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: init - proj=utm, 4<br>
pipeline: zone=56<br>
pipeline: south<br>
pipeline: ellps=GRS80<br>
utm: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
utm: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=GRS80<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Step 2 (proj=utm) at 0x562104b90340<br>
pipeline: Pipeline at [0x562104bc7f60]: step at [0x562104b90340] (proj=utm) done<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: 3 steps built. Determining i/o characteristics<br>
axisswap: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
axisswap: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=GRS80<br>
pipeline: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
pipeline: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=GRS80<br>
pipeline: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
pipeline: pj_ellipsoid - final: <br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Building arg list for step no. 0<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: init - proj=unitconvert, 3<br>
pipeline: xy_in=deg<br>
pipeline: xy_out=rad<br>
unitconvert: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
unitconvert: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=GRS80<br>
unitconvert: xy_in unit: Degree<br>
unitconvert: xy_out unit: Radian<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Step 0 (proj=unitconvert) at 0x562104bc82a0<br>
pipeline: Pipeline at [0x562104b87920]: step at [0x562104bc82a0] (proj=unitconvert) done<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Building arg list for step no. 1<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: init - proj=utm, 4<br>
pipeline: zone=56<br>
pipeline: south<br>
pipeline: ellps=GRS80<br>
utm: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
utm: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=GRS80<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Step 1 (proj=utm) at 0x562104b94000<br>
pipeline: Pipeline at [0x562104b87920]: step at [0x562104b94000] (proj=utm) done<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: 2 steps built. Determining i/o characteristics<br>
pipeline: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
pipeline: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=GRS80<br>
pipeline: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
pipeline: pj_ellipsoid - final: <br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Building arg list for step no. 0<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: init - proj=axisswap, 2<br>
pipeline: order=2,1<br>
axisswap: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
axisswap: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=GRS80<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Step 0 (proj=axisswap) at 0x562104ac94a0<br>
pipeline: Pipeline at [0x562104c029b0]: step at [0x562104ac94a0] (proj=axisswap) done<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Building arg list for step no. 1<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: init - proj=unitconvert, 3<br>
pipeline: xy_in=deg<br>
pipeline: xy_out=rad<br>
unitconvert: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
unitconvert: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=GRS80<br>
unitconvert: xy_in unit: Degree<br>
unitconvert: xy_out unit: Radian<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Step 1 (proj=unitconvert) at 0x562104b94d60<br>
pipeline: Pipeline at [0x562104c029b0]: step at [0x562104b94d60] (proj=unitconvert) done<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Building arg list for step no. 2<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: init - proj=utm, 4<br>
pipeline: zone=56<br>
pipeline: south<br>
pipeline: ellps=GRS80<br>
utm: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
utm: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=GRS80<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Step 2 (proj=utm) at 0x562104b952a0<br>
pipeline: Pipeline at [0x562104c029b0]: step at [0x562104b952a0] (proj=utm) done<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: 3 steps built. Determining i/o characteristics<br>
pipeline: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
pipeline: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=WGS84<br>
pipeline: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
pipeline: pj_ellipsoid - final: <br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Building arg list for step no. 0<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: init - proj=axisswap, 2<br>
pipeline: order=2,1<br>
axisswap: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
axisswap: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=GRS80<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Step 0 (proj=axisswap) at 0x562104b976f0<br>
pipeline: Pipeline at [0x562104b96660]: step at [0x562104b976f0] (proj=axisswap) done<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Building arg list for step no. 1<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: init - proj=unitconvert, 3<br>
pipeline: xy_in=deg<br>
pipeline: xy_out=rad<br>
unitconvert: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
unitconvert: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=GRS80<br>
unitconvert: xy_in unit: Degree<br>
unitconvert: xy_out unit: Radian<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Step 1 (proj=unitconvert) at 0x562104b97cc0<br>
pipeline: Pipeline at [0x562104b96660]: step at [0x562104b97cc0] (proj=unitconvert) done<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Building arg list for step no. 2<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: init - proj=push, 2<br>
pipeline: v_3<br>
push: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
push: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=GRS80<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Step 2 (proj=push) at 0x562104b98290<br>
pipeline: Pipeline at [0x562104b96660]: step at [0x562104b98290] (proj=push) done<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Building arg list for step no. 3<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: init - proj=cart, 2<br>
pipeline: ellps=WGS84<br>
cart: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
cart: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=WGS84<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Step 3 (proj=cart) at 0x562104b98810<br>
pipeline: Pipeline at [0x562104b96660]: step at [0x562104b98810] (proj=cart) done<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Building arg list for step no. 4<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: init - inv, 10<br>
pipeline: proj=helmert<br>
pipeline: x=0.06155<br>
pipeline: y=-0.01087<br>
pipeline: z=-0.04019<br>
pipeline: rx=-0.0394924<br>
pipeline: ry=-0.0327221<br>
pipeline: rz=-0.0328979<br>
pipeline: s=-0.009994<br>
pipeline: convention=coordinate_frame<br>
helmert: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
helmert: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=GRS80<br>
helmert: Helmert parameters:<br>
helmert: x= 0.06155 y= -0.01087 z= -0.04019<br>
helmert: rx= -0.03949 ry= -0.03272 rz= -0.03290<br>
helmert: s= -0.00999 exact=0 convention=coordinate_frame<br>
helmert: dx= 0.00000 dy= 0.00000 dz= 0.00000<br>
helmert: drx= 0.00000 dry= 0.00000 drz= 0.00000<br>
helmert: ds= 0.00000 t_epoch= 0.00000<br>
helmert: Transformation parameters for observation t_obs=0 (t_epoch=0):<br>
helmert: x: 0.06155<br>
helmert: y: -0.01087<br>
helmert: z: -0.04019<br>
helmert: s: -9.994e-09<br>
helmert: rx: -1.91465e-07<br>
helmert: ry: -1.58641e-07<br>
helmert: rz: -1.59494e-07<br>
helmert: theta: 0<br>
helmert: Rotation Matrix:<br>
helmert: | 1 -1.59494e-07 1.58641e-07 |<br>
helmert: | 1.59494e-07 1 -1.91465e-07 |<br>
helmert: | -1.58641e-07 1.91465e-07 1 |<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Step 4 (inv) at 0x562104b98e90<br>
pipeline: Pipeline at [0x562104b96660]: step at [0x562104b98e90] (inv) done<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Building arg list for step no. 5<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: init - inv, 3<br>
pipeline: proj=cart<br>
pipeline: ellps=GRS80<br>
cart: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
cart: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=GRS80<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Step 5 (inv) at 0x562104b99560<br>
pipeline: Pipeline at [0x562104b96660]: step at [0x562104b99560] (inv) done<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Building arg list for step no. 6<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: init - proj=pop, 2<br>
pipeline: v_3<br>
pop: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
pop: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=GRS80<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Step 6 (proj=pop) at 0x562104b99ac0<br>
pipeline: Pipeline at [0x562104b96660]: step at [0x562104b99ac0] (proj=pop) done<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Building arg list for step no. 7<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: init - proj=utm, 4<br>
pipeline: zone=56<br>
pipeline: south<br>
pipeline: ellps=GRS80<br>
utm: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
utm: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=GRS80<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Step 7 (proj=utm) at 0x562104b9a070<br>
pipeline: Pipeline at [0x562104b96660]: step at [0x562104b9a070] (proj=utm) done<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: 8 steps built. Determining i/o characteristics<br>
pipeline: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
pipeline: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=GRS80<br>
pipeline: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
pipeline: pj_ellipsoid - final: <br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Building arg list for step no. 0<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: init - proj=axisswap, 2<br>
pipeline: order=2,1<br>
axisswap: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
axisswap: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=GRS80<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Step 0 (proj=axisswap) at 0x562104b9b790<br>
pipeline: Pipeline at [0x562104b9a890]: step at [0x562104b9b790] (proj=axisswap) done<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Building arg list for step no. 1<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: init - proj=unitconvert, 3<br>
pipeline: xy_in=deg<br>
pipeline: xy_out=rad<br>
unitconvert: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
unitconvert: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=GRS80<br>
unitconvert: xy_in unit: Degree<br>
unitconvert: xy_out unit: Radian<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Step 1 (proj=unitconvert) at 0x562104b9bd60<br>
pipeline: Pipeline at [0x562104b9a890]: step at [0x562104b9bd60] (proj=unitconvert) done<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Building arg list for step no. 2<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: init - inv, 3<br>
pipeline: proj=hgridshift<br>
pipeline: grids=au_icsm_GDA94_GDA2020_conformal_and_distortion.tif<br>
hgridshift: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
hgridshift: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=GRS80<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Step 2 (inv) at 0x562104b9c380<br>
pipeline: Pipeline at [0x562104b9a890]: step at [0x562104b9c380] (inv) done<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Building arg list for step no. 3<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: init - proj=utm, 4<br>
pipeline: zone=56<br>
pipeline: south<br>
pipeline: ellps=GRS80<br>
utm: pj_ellipsoid - final: a=6378137.000 f=1/298.257, errno=0<br>
utm: pj_ellipsoid - final: ellps=GRS80<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: Step 3 (proj=utm) at 0x562104b9c950<br>
pipeline: Pipeline at [0x562104b9a890]: step at [0x562104b9c950] (proj=utm) done<br>
pipeline: Pipeline: 4 steps built. Determining i/o characteristics<br>
Using coordinate operation Inverse of GDA94 to WGS 84 (3) + Map Grid of Australia zone 56<br>
pj_open_lib(au_icsm_GDA94_GDA2020_conformal_and_distortion.tif): call fopen(/usr/share/proj/au_icsm_GDA94_GDA2020_conformal_and_distortion.tif) - succeeded<br>
502934.23 6958717.61 0.00<br>
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