[Qgis-user] Re: [Qgis-developer] Request for Enhancement: PDF export for post-processing

Milo van der Linden milovanderlinden at gmail.com
Sat Mar 6 15:05:18 EST 2010


Thank you all for the responses, especially Tyler; I appreciate it!

I am posting my conclusions for everyone to use if they ever run across 
issues in getting gis-data professionally printed:

I went to Bruxelles yesterday to discuss with use-it (www.use-it.be) 
what is currently possible with qGIS in regard to their current working 
process, use-it is using mac ad their workstation of choice. They where 
amazed to see that qGIS offers them:

- Download from the openstreetmap server
- The possibility to select features from an osm node-, line- or 
polygon- layer by selecting on an attribute in the browser-view and 
using "save selection as shapefile"
- use the composer to create a pdf that contains line-work, nodes and 
polygons

A big cheer to qGIS itself, the fabolous composer and the osm plugin!

use-it feels that qGIS is a great option for them. Compared to 
openstreetmaps osmarender, in combination with inkscape qGIS has two 
plusses:
- the ease of setup thanks to the kynchaos repo, it works without any hassle
- No need for X11 which caused inkscape to fail after a mac OS upgrade

Which makes qGIS feel like riding first class compared to "hanging under 
a plane" when using osmarender and inkscape on Mac OS.

The export of "raw" nodes, raw lines and raw polygons gives them full 
control in Adobe Illustrator over the graphics.
- It is easy to select elements in Adobe illustrator by line brush and 
color and group them in layers.

The one big issue that remains is; text... but as concluded before; 
that's a qt issue and has nothing to do with the excellence of qGIS

use-it is well helped by using qGIS. The approach
1) osm-import -> composer -> pdf export

proofs useful. But they will investigate another approach:

2) osm-import -> save as shapefiles -> Avensis Mappublisher

Avensis mappublisher unfortunately is closed source, but for use-it it 
is simply that they want their nut cracked as effective as possible. And 
effective in their case is:
1. Fast availability of openstreetmap data in adobe illustrator
2. No need to train adobe illustrator specialists to learn inkscape
3. Full control over text and labels

They want to create eye-candy and if open source and open data can help 
that is prefered, but if it cannot, they will not be troubled by putting 
some closed source into their production chain.

I hope to hear from them if the 2) solution works. And if it does, it 
means they will not invest into qGIS to get more options into the 
composer. If it doesn't, I will be back in touch!

Kind regards,

Milo van der Linden








Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo) wrote:
> Arg, forward to hit send last night..  Dane's already followed up, oh
> well...
>
>
> >From another angle, I exported using Quantumnik (mapnik plugin) into PDF
> and it worked well.  Text has issues there as well, but Dane can speak
> more about it than I can.  This feature depends on Cairo library being
> improved apparently.
>
> Tyler
>
> Milo van der Linden wrote:
>   
>> I just found out that the main bulk in manual labour is repositioning
>> text. It turns out that any export from Qt creates text as outlines,
>> whatever program you use. A quick intermezzo on the #qt irc channel at
>> freenode learned that Qt is simply *not* capable of rendering text as text.
>>
>> This would be the first thing that my contact would really like to see
>> fixed. So; to limit the bounds of the question;
>>
>> What would be the effort to export text as text? Could it be done at all
>> given that Qt doesn't support it?
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Milo van der Linden
>>
>>
>> Alex Mandel wrote:
>>     
>>> As I mentioned in IRC here it the thread about the same topic leading up
>>> to the november hackfest.
>>> http://n2.nabble.com/SVG-export-td3792011.html#a3792011
>>>
>>> You can see it in the topic list too
>>> http://www.qgis.org/wiki/2._QGIS_Hackfest_in_Vienna_2009
>>>
>>> In the end it seems like mapsever, osm and a bunch of other projects are
>>> stuck because there isn't a good rendering toolkit, or we aren't making
>>> use of the current ones. So we have the option to try and patch Qt svg
>>> support to maybe solve it or to hunt around at other svg rendering
>>> libraries and try to bring those into the fold, not sure what
>>> openoffice, scribus or inkscape use but those seem like good places to
>>> start asking.
>>>
>>> I guess the question is do we know a programmer who could solve this
>>> issue if we shuffled money their way from Milo's source?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Alex
>>>
>>> Milo van der Linden wrote:
>>>  
>>>       
>>>> Hello Tyler!
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for sharing this. Indeed as described in the article on the
>>>> wiki; the main point is: Don't build advanced cartographic composition
>>>> functionality into any of the GIS products that are on the OSGeo stack.
>>>> Less is more.
>>>>
>>>> If the GIS(es) could export to PDF with
>>>> * PLAIN vector-work; ordered in PDF layers
>>>> * Text as text and not as letter-contours (perhaps even with standard
>>>> font embedded)
>>>> * Symbol nodes as dots, ordered per layer based upon attributes
>>>>
>>>> My contact would be well served!
>>>>
>>>> Even putting effort in creating advanced symbology would be to much,
>>>> use-it will want to change even that in his desktop publishing
>>>> environment, so a simple node and the fact the node is on a certain pdf
>>>> layer would be enough information for him to transform all the nodes
>>>> into the symbology he wants.
>>>>
>>>> Right now he has days of work to create a single map of a city
>>>> post-processing the GIS data (mainly cleansing) and then the
>>>> cartographic work starts. If we could remove the cleaning job, it would
>>>> be a win of 2 to 6 days per city map which would be excelent!
>>>>
>>>> Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo) wrote:
>>>>    
>>>>         
>>>>> Hi Milo, I just missed you in IRC.  I'm not a QGIS developer but I've
>>>>> been trying to clarify an idea a few folks started a couple years back.
>>>>> Specifically, establishing a standard way of doing high quality,
>>>>> vector/raster output which would do pretty much what you are
>>>>> describing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Standing back as a user, I think many projects have this challenge and
>>>>> could work together if the approach was abstracted and some common
>>>>> underlying tools agreed on or tested.
>>>>>
>>>>> Without writing it all out, my thoughts are here and might be
>>>>> interesting to you.  Dane's work on Quantumnik are encouraging and, in
>>>>> my little world, are pushing the envelope of what's described here too:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Cartographic_Library  See the first
>>>>> two
>>>>> sections for clarity.  The rest is a brainstorm that's not well
>>>>> organised.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Milo van der Linden wrote:
>>>>>  
>>>>>      
>>>>>           
>>>>>> Hello People!
>>>>>> I have a question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This summer I met someone of use-it http://www.use-it.be/ belgium
>>>>>> at the
>>>>>> OpenStreetMap State of the Map.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Use-IT creates free paper maps for youth-hostels targeting a specific
>>>>>> audience. Currently they are using the tool chain:
>>>>>> OpenStreetMap website -> export svg -> import in Illustrator ->
>>>>>> lots and
>>>>>> lots of manual labour and finally produce eye candy like this:
>>>>>> http://www.use-it.be/_files/inlineuploads/pages/MAP_O_Brussels.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Recently, the contact reached out to me. He could not find a solution
>>>>>> within
>>>>>> the OpenStreetMap community or it's related technology partners. Now
>>>>>> I am
>>>>>> helping him out looking at new ways to speed up their labour process.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am investigating the qGIS pdf export and it looks promising in
>>>>>> combination
>>>>>> with the OpenStreetMap plugin but texts come out as letter-outlines
>>>>>> instead
>>>>>> of fonts and the PDF layers structure is hard to work with. I would
>>>>>> like to
>>>>>> know if the developers of the layouter/export would be interested in
>>>>>> about 2
>>>>>> weeks of work to enhance the layout manager to something that creates
>>>>>> pdf
>>>>>> that is perfectly fit for post-processing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *****************1. PROCESSING PROBLEM*
>>>>>>  This remains almost impossible - only supercomputers are able to
>>>>>>  deliver an svg-file of a city of reasonable size, and even that is
>>>>>>  still only a 50% shot. It took us a full night to render a city, and
>>>>>>  were able to get there only with one of about ten available
>>>>>>  xml-rulesheets (called z12). How could this be tackled?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This one is tackled with the OSM plugin in combination with the PDF
>>>>>> export.
>>>>>> As far as I can see, the way osm data is presented in qGIS is
>>>>>> simplified,
>>>>>> but this is good! We don't need shading, outlines and a whole lot of
>>>>>> fencies
>>>>>> in this fase. The eye-candy will be created in Illustrator. So, as
>>>>>> far as I
>>>>>> can see; qGIS tackles this issue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *****************2. LAYER PROBLEM*
>>>>>>  The svg does not contain separate layers with a clear content (like
>>>>>>  'parks', 'roads', 'rivers'). Only the layers 'Map' and 'Map
>>>>>>  Decoration' appear, but all the information is thrown together in
>>>>>>  the layer 'Map'. You say it's a matter of someone finding the time
>>>>>>  to improve this - but who is the best person to address?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the OpenStreetMap data format, there are basically 3 layers:
>>>>>> points,
>>>>>> lines and polygons. The "real" layering is organised in attributes
>>>>>> called
>>>>>> tags. To be more generic; It would be good to push elements to a pdf
>>>>>> layer
>>>>>> based upon grouping by attribute. In case of openstreetmap data, it
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> mean applying some rules to strip out the tags into the required
>>>>>> attributes
>>>>>> and then in the layout manager tell the pdf export to "group by
>>>>>> attribute
>>>>>> column A"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *****************3. TYPOGRAPHICAL PROBLEM*
>>>>>>  Layouters prefer to work with Adobe Illustrator to make maps. It's
>>>>>>  what they know best, and Inkscape is just not as good yet.
>>>>>>  Osmarender renders svg files. It is possible to open an svg-file in
>>>>>>  Illustrator, but then you get typographical problems, illustrated
>>>>>>  below. Our question: could Osmarender be made to deliver an eps-file
>>>>>>  (always works in Inkscape AND Illustrator) instead of an svg?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  This is what happened to a small part of Antwerp (Belgium):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  SVG IN INKSCAPE
>>>>>>   > opens fine
>>>>>>   > text is fully editable
>>>>>>   > see image 'svg_inkscape'
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  SVG IN ILLUSTRATOR
>>>>>>   > opens upside down and with mistakes
>>>>>>   > text is still editable as text (so it's not flattened), but does
>>>>>>  not appear on a horizontal path in the street. Furthermore, every
>>>>>>  letter is on a different path, so it's impossible to select an
>>>>>>  entire word.
>>>>>>   > see images 'svg_illustrator' and 'svg_illustrator_detail'
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  SVG SAVED AS EPS IN INKSCAPE AND THEN OPENED IN ILLUSTRATOR
>>>>>>   > opens fine
>>>>>>   > text is flattened and not editable anymore, and therefore useless
>>>>>>  for layout
>>>>>>   > see images 'eps_illustrator' and 'eps_illustrator_detail'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **************
>>>>>> Again; as far as I can see, it is qGIS to the rescue! The whole
>>>>>> process of
>>>>>> going from svg through inkscape to Adobe Illustrator is greatly
>>>>>> smartened by
>>>>>> using PDF export instead. Only one thing is needed here: to export
>>>>>> fonts as
>>>>>> text and not as letter contours. Horizontal text would be excelent.
>>>>>> In that
>>>>>> way, the designers can throw away what they do not need and use
>>>>>> Illustrators
>>>>>> smart tools to make text follow lines and so on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, what I would like to know (my contact has some funds to spend on
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> topic):
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Who can I address with my enhancement questions?
>>>>>> - Who would be willing to spend about 40 hours on this and at what
>>>>>> rate?
>>>>>> - Would this fit the roadmap of qGIS development?
>>>>>> - Would others like to join up and provide extra funding for this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am curious to see what responses will be coming!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Milo van der Linden
>>>>>> +31616598808
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>             
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