<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 10 May 2015, at 14:46, Tim Sutton <<a href="mailto:tim@kartoza.com" class="">tim@kartoza.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">What about considering alternative packaging methods? For example making an equivalent of the windows standalone package for Linux. A long time ago I used to build QGIS and all its dependencies into a directory (e.g. /opt/qgis2.8) and then use a launcher script to update the library paths to each in that dir with priority over the system libs. The result is something pretty portable and self contained. There are free NSIS like tools for Linux and we would no longer be reliant on which libraries are available on the host system. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">More recently we achieved similar results with Docker (e.g. <a href="https://registry.hub.docker.com/u/kartoza/qgis-desktop/" class="">https://registry.hub.docker.com/u/kartoza/qgis-desktop/</a>) </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I appreciate that there are many good reasons to use shared libraries on an operating system, but there are also many good reasons not to:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">* cross distribution binaries</div><div class="">* ability to install multiple concurrent versions of QGIS and know they will work (e.g. we recently had pain when software we wrote depended on QGIS 2.2 but was no longer installable from debian archives)</div><div class="">* we could provide all the extra goodies that give you a good experience and that are hard to get configured on each distort (grass, saga, OTB, goal with lots of drivers)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">IIRC gdal used to follow this route in the past, and other non FOSS packages like Google Earth etc do too.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In our PSC thread referred to by Anita below, it became apparent that a lot of people will have a hard time if we jump to Qt5 & Python 3 as a requirement, so we should look for approaches (such, as but not necessarily, the one above) that provide use some level of independence from the underlying OS and its provisioned packages.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Also much as I love debian, lets keep some perspective, it is probably a very small part of our established user base (the bulk being on Windows) and it does’t make sense to me to make the majority of users unhappy to keep the minority happy.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In our road map for migration from QGIS 2.x to 3.x we should definitely plan on supporting 2.x for an extended period in order to allow users and developers to migrate their work to the new platform. so any approach which implies a hard cut off of 2.x support would be suboptimal in my opinion.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>My apologies I missed the part about a 2 year transition period from Sebastiaan - which probably negates part of my message above.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Regards</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Tim</div><div><br class=""></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Last thought: I wonder if debian plans on supporting the new snappy package format from Ubuntu which I believe will be used for desktop packages too from 15.10 (in addition to deb packages).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Regards</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Tim</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 10 May 2015, at 14:16, Anita Graser <<a href="mailto:anitagraser@gmx.at" class="">anitagraser@gmx.at</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;">On Sun, May 10, 2015 at 1:45 PM, Paolo Cavallini<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:cavallini@faunalia.it" target="_blank" class="">cavallini@faunalia.it</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="">Seems a rather serious issue. Shouldn't we reconsider our roadmap accordingly?<br class=""></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;">I don't seem to be able to find any dates mentioned in the linked resources. When (date) will Debian remove Qt4? </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;">This basically warms up our discussion on<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/qgis-psc/2015-April/002974.html" class="">http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/qgis-psc/2015-April/002974.html</a></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;">Best wishes,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;">Anita</div><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="">All the best.<br class=""><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">Il 10 maggio 2015 11:25:23 CEST, Sebastiaan Couwenberg <<a href="mailto:sebastic@xs4all.nl" target="_blank" class="">sebastic@xs4all.nl</a>> ha scritto:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><pre class="">-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br class="">Hash: SHA512<br class=""><br class="">On 05/10/2015 10:51 AM, Matthias Kuhn wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(114, 159, 207); padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi<br class=""> <br class=""> On 05/09/2015 03:28 PM, Paolo Cavallini wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(173, 127, 168); padding-left: 1ex;"> Il 09/05/2015 12:38, Sebastiaan Couwenberg ha scritto:<br class=""> <br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(138, 226, 52); padding-left: 1ex;"> How feasible is switching to Python 3?<br class=""></blockquote> I believe this would be a huge issue: most or all plugins will<br class=""> not work, both the internal and the external ones, so our qgis<br class=""> will be badly lame. Thanks for raising this point.<br class=""> <br class=""></blockquote> There will probably be no PyQt4/Qt5 package but only a PyQt5/Qt5<br class=""> package? If there's a
PyQt4/Qt5 package the upgrade process should<br class=""> be rather painless. If there's none, all plugins will need an<br class=""> update anyway and IMO the two changes PyQt5 and Python 3 should be<br class=""> grouped. Sebastiaan, do you know anything about this package?<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">I'm not involved in the Python or PyQt packaging, so I have no<br class="">intimate knowledges of those packages.<br class=""><br class="">Both the python-qt4 [1] and pyqt5 [2] packages in Debian have the same<br class="">people involved. They may be willing to provide a python-qt4 package<br class="">built with qt5.<br class=""><br class="">[1] <a href="https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/python-qt4" target="_blank" class="">https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/python-qt4</a><br class="">[2] <a href="https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/pyqt5" target="_blank" class="">https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/pyqt5</a><br class=""><br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(114, 159, 207); padding-left: 1ex;"> The other issue is that there's a rather big dependency on<br class=""> QtWebkit currently. We are
struggling already with that on<br class=""> Android. Alternatives * QtWebEngine is the future but only<br class=""> available starting from Qt 5.4. So this is not an option now. *<br class=""> QLabel/QML: Where it's only used for richtext, a QLabel can be<br class=""> used. Where there's javascript involved it may be worth<br class=""> investigating the use of QML.<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">The planned removal of the Qt4 WebKit component in Debian is the<br class="">primary reason to switch to Qt5. Sticking to the Qt5 Webkit until Qt<br class="">5.4 is widely available seems like the road of least resistance.<br class=""><br class="">Kind Regards,<br class=""><br class="">Bas<br class=""><br class="">- -- <br class=""> GPG Key ID: 4096R/6750F10AE88D4AF1<br class="">Fingerprint: 8182 DE41 7056 408D 6146 50D1 6750 F10A E88D 4AF1<br class="">-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<br class="">Version: GnuPG v2<br class=""><br class="">iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJVTyQDAAoJEGdQ8QrojUrxg6kP/Aj8sSsq6eOSG5EKQbbzG2YP<br class="">xazhDxSbrPJGKql2LaPDOwMb5ChlkTQUi13SZi9Y3B6iUU0IQ11B8zvsTDz+qUC5<br class="">t3srte+XyJDCDky7gLhRWIikm92F3lusfyrk0t3MCDVdetvt15k3kEUH2M7Nt3jD<br class="">t1FzhypFVbxLSR7S1a7oM+fy9wp3Z301yYwnpAj8OdhCPL9XM9BxHg2g88hydYMC<br class="">L/4KdWO3i82HTUsAO1iG6CtY+oYc0a9EL0pelRtcV+icvDycgID1+As/PZrgA3sN<br class="">990HWsT4PUgeO2dISte5NtQcLzZw3GrKDiwU3VCU2Zaa2JZWYbKmbHtLWPQIgjMD<br class="">Tf6hw9QJORIVP58m1I9loF+fT0emBp5fe6FcoIiSAKfLNEVYNJRRMz7y/4Nm4T9p<br class="">ALnwgSvJQdNpPx5KluPOg4QecCCkmWj8xQ7IpuFVcpxLMrINGKRokzamL5mzHFFW<br class="">fSkO/zE6lYWeXX8SiT/suavpWi1hQOxqXGRLy0KBeNRSqGywVDQAqxzt3+LWKwZs<br class="">8cAv9ySdQqmx2GLOUIzkl8g/zfwudI9WN1/n/oLl2GZ5GIGS9yZgka+N1VrFvAb3<br class="">gcd3hQxyMxnYBvJ98eLEUlHuNgp9Y74QX4Ap6i8ss53WtTQG+dcBFjrJDFvaU2GO<br class="">QzV9i13DJiKUdDj6/Lx8<br class="">=3Ioh<br class="">-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----<br class=""><hr class=""><br class="">Qgis-developer mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank" class="">Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org</a><br class=""><a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer" target="_blank" class="">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer</a><span class=""><font color="#888888" class=""><br class=""></font></span></pre></blockquote></div><span class=""><font color="#888888" class=""><br class="">--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><a href="http://faunalia.eu/" target="_blank" class="">http://faunalia.eu</a>/<br class="">Sent from mobile, sorry for being short</font></span></div><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Qgis-developer mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org" class="">Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org</a><br class=""><a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer" target="_blank" class="">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer</a><br class=""></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; 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<div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-align: center;" class=""><span class="">—</span></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-align: center;" class=""><span class=""><br class=""></span></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><span class=""><span id="cid:62C890D4-3964-4609-BDE6-7536D5FBDD70"><KartozaLogo160x66.png></span></span><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-align: center;" class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-align: center;" class="">Tim Sutton</div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-align: center;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><div style="text-align: center;" class="">Visit <a href="http://kartoza.com/" class="">http://kartoza.com</a> to find out about open source:</div><div style="text-align: center;" class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div style="text-align: center;" class="">* Desktop GIS programming services</div><div style="text-align: center;" class="">* Geospatial web development</div><div style="text-align: center;" class="">* GIS Training</div><div style="text-align: center;" class="">* Consulting Services</div><div style="text-align: center;" class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div style="text-align: center;" class="">Skype: timlinux Irc: timlinux on #qgis at <a href="http://freenode.net/" class="">freenode.net</a></div><div style="text-align: center;" class="">Tim is a member of the QGIS Project Steering Committee</div><div style="text-align: center;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="text-align: center;" class="">Kartoza is a merger between Linfiniti and Afrispatial</div></div></div></div>
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