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<p>Hi Ian,<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 01.08.19 um 11:21 schrieb Ian
Turton:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+=cGJ=26bmg8QXw36ZT5i3-A4n1YV_qwG+n-EVs-9JRCxJKPg@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr">I would suspect that switching to gitlab would not
be sufficient as it is still with in the USA and would be
subject to the same restrictions. Also if self-hosting we will
need to make sure it outside the USA.</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes - our self-hosted infrastructure is in Germany.<br>
</p>
<p>We are aware that gitlab is also hosted in the US.</p>
<p>However, a self-hosted version of gitlab in our current
infrastructure adds a significant additional burden. That's why we
need to discuss it first, reach consensus and allocate resources
for maintenance.</p>
<p>As to China: this is kind of a "black hole" for us. China (and
probably also North Korea) are some of the very few countries
where we have almost no feedback on usage, have almost no income
of donations and sponsorships, etc. My assumption is that in China
they just pirate ESRI software, or they have some alternative GIS
they programmed themselves.</p>
<p>Andreas<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+=cGJ=26bmg8QXw36ZT5i3-A4n1YV_qwG+n-EVs-9JRCxJKPg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There is also a suggestion that China could be added to the
list of "banned" countries too. <a
href="https://www.abacusnews.com/digital-life/chinese-developers-fear-losing-open-source-tech-trade-war/article/3011463"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.abacusnews.com/digital-life/chinese-developers-fear-losing-open-source-tech-trade-war/article/3011463</a> While
this article suggests that no open source code is affected <a
href="https://www.abacusnews.com/digital-life/github-says-chinese-developers-are-safe-export-restrictions/article/3012452"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.abacusnews.com/digital-life/github-says-chinese-developers-are-safe-export-restrictions/article/3012452</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ian</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 1 Aug 2019 at 09:35,
Andreas Neumann <<a href="mailto:a.neumann@carto.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">a.neumann@carto.net</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
Thanks for bringing up this discussion.<br>
<br>
My personal opinion is that we should be worried by such
development and <br>
should have a plan B for hosting our code.<br>
<br>
We certainly want QGIS and its source code to be available
world wide, <br>
not just to parts of the world at the mercy of some
governments and <br>
corporations.<br>
<br>
But the decision to move away from github should be discussed
and voted <br>
on by the core devs and voting members because apparently it
has a lot <br>
of implications and a lot of work went into the CI integration
<br>
(according to some devs).<br>
<br>
We already have 10k € in the 2019 budget for github to gitlab
(hosted or <br>
self hosted?) migration. This money would already be available
this <br>
year, but first we need to have a plan and the support of the
developer <br>
community to do this step. If this isn't enough, we can have
additional <br>
budget in 2020.<br>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
<br>
Andreas<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 01.08.19 um 09:37 schrieb Vincent Picavet (ml):<br>
> Hi Nyall, all,<br>
><br>
> On 01/08/2019 06:26, Nyall Dawson wrote:<br>
>> Well, I've got to say upfront that we WERE warned
about the dangers of<br>
>> this happening by members of our community, and now
the worst IS<br>
>> happening and Github has started blocking access to
projects from<br>
>> certain regions.<br>
>><br>
>> See <a
href="https://www.linuxinsider.com/story/86154.html"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.linuxinsider.com/story/86154.html</a>,
but long story<br>
>> short, GitHub is now blocking users in Crimea, Cuba,
Iran, North Korea<br>
>> and Syria from accessing its services to comply with
U.S. trade<br>
>> control laws. I'm unsure if we're directly affected
yet by this, but<br>
>> the wording on Github's notice is very vague: "
GitHub MAY allow users<br>
>> in or ordinarily resident in countries and
territories subject to U.S.<br>
>> sanctions to access CERTAIN free GitHub.com services
for PERSONAL<br>
>> COMMUNICATIONS " (emphasis added by me).<br>
>><br>
>> What can/should we do in response to this?<br>
> While the impact of this decision is still very minor for
us right now,<br>
> as you say it is a very good illustration on how putting
us in a vendor<br>
> lock-in situation is bad.<br>
><br>
> I would say that it is not too late to re-work on a
self-hosted GitLab<br>
> instance, which would be more future-proof. That would
need a great deal<br>
> of efforts though, and would require specific funding for
the<br>
> forthcoming non-funny tasks.<br>
><br>
> At Oslandia, we would be willing to help, if it is the
path chosen by<br>
> the community.<br>
><br>
> A Git mirror would be great of course, but does not solve
the full problem.<br>
><br>
> And personally, this kind of attack against free
information and<br>
> knowledge is a concern, for sure.<br>
><br>
> Best regards,<br>
> Vincent<br>
><br>
>> Note that it ALSO applies to <a
href="http://gitlab.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">gitlab.com</a>, who are also subject
to the<br>
>> same trade laws, so moving to gitlab ISN'T a possible
solution (unless<br>
>> we self-host).<br>
>><br>
>> I think at the least we could/should endorse an
official, read-only<br>
>> repo mirror which isn't affected by the trade laws,
e.g.<br>
>> <a href="https://git.osgeo.org/gitea/qgis/QGIS"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://git.osgeo.org/gitea/qgis/QGIS</a>
would be a great candidate<br>
>> (unless osgeo is also affected by the same ruling,
which they could<br>
>> easily be, given that they are US based too) . An
official mirror<br>
>> would at least ensure that users in these regions can
access the<br>
>> existing source.<br>
>><br>
>> Does this development concern anyone else?<br>
>><br>
>> Nyall<br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
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>> <a href="mailto:QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
>> List info: <a
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-- <br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">Ian Turton<br>
</div>
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