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<p>Hi all,</p>
<p>Thank you Bo for this extensive summary of reasons why we should keep the LTR version.</p>
<p>I can only second that - from the perspective of being employed at a public organization myself - and from the perspective of I believe the majority of the Swiss QGIS users. The LTR version is certainly a success in general and it is what most users want.</p>
<p>Let's rather fix the issues in the LTR release process rather than killing it off because we sometimes run into troubles with it.</p>
<p>We should also think about all the good things that the LTR version provided to the QGIS users (in general it brought a lot of stability and increased reliability). Shit happens sometimes (like now) - and from every problem we should take the opportunity to potentially improve our project.</p>
<p>Andreas</p>
<p id="reply-intro">On 2021-11-16 12:00, Bo Victor Thomsen wrote:</p>
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<p>Hi all - </p>
<p>I have a few comments regarding the possible removal of the "QGIS LTR versions" ( as one of the original proponents for having a LTR version ) :</p>
<ul>
<li>The LTR version is the version that almost <em>all</em> QGIS-using <em>organisations</em> in Denmark is using. That means 40 - 50 % of all municipalities, regions (counties) and a number of state departments. And a lot of private companies too. They use it mostly in conjunction with some kind of "Web GIS" and have QGIS for the hard and complex stuff. This market penetration is on par with ESRI and better than MapInfo. As a treasurer of the QGIS Denmark User group I've registered 85 Danish organisational members out of 260 members. And this number is growing. So there is a large and growing number of QGIS users, that prefer the LTR version (actually the vast majority if you count the individual users in the organisations) . <br />The yearly fee from these organisational members is in large part the reason why QGIS Denmark has a Gold sponsorship of QGIS. <br /><br />I don't know about other countries, but I <em>guess, </em>that preferences in organisations is roughly the same: They prefer stability and as few errors as possible. And thirdly new glitzy features<br /><br /></li>
<li>I we ditch the LTR versions, I fear that an old nemesis will resurface: That there is not <em>any </em>version of QGIS that is really stable: A small irritating bug in ver. x will be solved in ver. x+1. However ver. x+1 contains another small irritating bug, that will be solved in version x+2 .... <br /><br />I know that the development process for QGIS has evolved tremendously the last couple of years. However, I still remember the "bad old days" with "no responsibility" for killing bugs in existing code caused by introduction of new code.<br /><br /></li>
<li>In my experience, the 1 - year period for LTR is the shortest period acceptable for organisations. They don't want to repackage QGIS every 6 months and certainly not every 4 months. You might even let the period be 1.5- 2 years instead of 1 year. <br /><br /></li>
<li>The quagmire of ver. 3.16... Isn't it a combination of a relatively old version of QGIS fine tuned to a set of support libraries, where the support libraries gets upgraded "an masse" because OsGeo4W gets upgraded from v1 to v2.; SIP gets upgraded from v4 to v6. And the proj library goes through several upgrades from v4 to v8 ? I my perspective that's a receipt for "The perfect storm". If it can't be fixed, then freeze it at 3.16.11 and fast-promote ver. 3.22 as LTR, perhaps with a big warning sign on it.<br />This it not a critique of the upgrade process. Every piece of software, including supporting libraries has to be upgraded from time to time. However I count 3 major upgrades of libraries on the same time <br />NB! Just read Jürgen's posting on ver. 3.16.14 being released on friday. If it works, then that's solves the ver. 3.16 issues for me. <br /><br /></li>
<li>I know, bug squashing is nobody's favourite programming discipline. Especially if you not are paid for doing it. Hence the need for bug squashin by payment. So what about trying to reach out to the large (or small) sponsors and ask them if they could put some extra coins in the pot earmarked for LTR ? I can't solely speak for QGIS Denmark User group, but I would certainly discuss this problem with other members of the board and eventually the general assembly. And we have some contacts with the other QGIS usergroups i Scandinavia. The Swiss usergroup could for example talk with the german usergroup (I know the problem is not based on language, but sometimes it's easier to promote an idea with people talking roughly the same language) <br /><br />So how much money are we talking about ? <br /><br /></li>
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Whatever that's decided regarding the LTR, I personally still will be a staunch supporter of QGIS. But please don't throw the baby out with the bathwater without due consideration and without trying alternative solutions.<br /><br />
<pre class="v1moz-signature">Med venlig hilsen / Kind regards
Bo Victor Thomsen</pre>
<div class="v1moz-cite-prefix">Den 16-11-2021 kl. 09:22 skrev Alessandro Pasotti:</div>
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<div class="v1gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 8:50 AM Marco Bernasocchi <<a class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:marco@qgis.org" rel="noreferrer">marco@qgis.org</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div dir="ltr">Hi Anita, Hi Nyall, Hi All
<div>I think that it is a good idea to allocate the first half hour (and more if needed) in tonight's budget meeting to this very pressing subject.<br />Nyall, thanks a lot for your analysis, we'll use it as discussion base.</div>
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<div>I extended the meeting invitation from 18:00 to 19:30. </div>
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<div>See you later</div>
<div>Marco<br /><br /></div>
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<div>Hi,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>thinking about how to possibly prevent this to happen again I think that the manual testing cycles as proposed with <a class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/qgis-psc/2020-December/009186.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/qgis-psc/2020-December/009186.html</a> could help in identifying biggest issues before a release.</div>
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<div>I think we should consider the possibility of investing in that direction.</div>
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<div>Kind regards.</div>
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-- <br />
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<div>Alessandro Pasotti</div>
<div>QCooperative: <a href="https://www.qcooperative.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">www.qcooperative.net</a></div>
ItOpen: <a href="http://www.itopen.it" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">www.itopen.it</a></div>
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