<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail-flex gmail-flex-grow gmail-flex-col gmail-gap-3 gmail-max-w-full"><div class="gmail-min-h-[20px] gmail-flex gmail-flex-col gmail-items-start gmail-gap-3 gmail-overflow-x-auto gmail-whitespace-pre-wrap gmail-break-words"><div class="gmail-markdown gmail-prose gmail-w-full gmail-break-words gmail-dark:prose-invert gmail-light"><p>Hello,</p><p>In my opinion, the recent improvements made to the download page appear to be quite user-friendly and I don't have anything to add on that. </p><p>Now moving on to the <a href="https://www.qgis.org/en/site/forusers/support.html">support page</a>, it would be helpful to begin with a friendly introduction to clarify the nature of support within QGIS.org. In my opinion, it's important to emphasize that QGIS.org, as a part of the open-source ethos, primarily relies on community collaboration and does not offer direct, individualized support. Instead, we encourage users to actively engage with our community through mailing lists and communication channels... </p><p>So, my suggestion for the text would be:</p><p>"Welcome to our support page! At QGIS.org, we're all about fostering a collaborative and supportive community for our users. While we don't offer direct, one-on-one support ourselves, we've created a space where you can connect with others who share your passion for QGIS. </p><p>We've set up mailing lists and various communication channels where you can engage with fellow users and our dedicated developers.
However, we understand that there may be times when you require
personalized assistance or wish to explore more comprehensive support
options. For such cases, you can contact one of the support providers
offering <a href="https://www.qgis.org/en/site/forusers/commercial_support.html#">commercial support</a>."</p><p>I believe clarification of QGIS.org support will reduce questions about donations and expected support... </p><p>Regarding the donation page, the description provided by Jean-François Bourdon seems clear and effective.</p><p>Greetings,</p><p>Selma.</p></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 at 17:44, Nick Bearman <<a href="mailto:nick@geospatialtrainingsolutions.co.uk">nick@geospatialtrainingsolutions.co.uk</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Thanks everyone, and thanks Harrissou for making those changes. <br>
</p>
<p>In terms of how we explain support, perhaps Selma might have some
thoughts (with her work on documentation). <br>
</p>
<p>Selma - see thread below, but briefly some people are getting
very poor download speeds. They are then donating and asking 'why
are the download speeds slow even though I have donated?'. There
are various things to unpack here, but would be really interested
in your thoughts on the changes to the text we have made on the
download page and what we are proposing on the 'donate' page. <br>
</p>
<p>Feel free to email if you have questions and/or contact me off
list. <br>
</p>
<p>Best wishes,<br>
Nick.<br>
</p>
<div>On 21/09/2023 2:18 pm, Bourdon,
Jean-François (DIF) via QGIS-Developer wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<img alt="Intranet logo" src="https://mrnf.gouv.qc.ca/documents/ministere/piv/MRNF.png">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">To continue on the topic of donation and
support, although I find it strange that someone doing a
donation is expecting at the same time to receive special
support (donation != license), maybe a precision should be
made on the donation page (<a href="https://donate.qgis.org/" target="_blank">https://donate.qgis.org/</a>)
like:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">“Please note that making a donation doesn’t
grant any additional support than what can be found at the
support page (<a href="https://www.qgis.org/en/site/forusers/support.html" target="_blank">https://www.qgis.org/en/site/forusers/support.html</a>).
For any specific need, you might contact one of the
numerous companies offering commercial support (<a href="https://www.qgis.org/en/site/forusers/commercial_support.html#qgis-commercial-support)" target="_blank">https://www.qgis.org/en/site/forusers/commercial_support.html#qgis-commercial-support)</a>.”<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Maybe this same text could be add to the
section “What is your benefit supporting the QGIS
Development?” for the Sustaining Membership Program.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Jean-François
Bourdon, ing.f.</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(46,116,181)">Analyste
en télédétection</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br>
<b><span style="color:rgb(46,116,181)">Direction des inventaires
forestiers</span></b><br>
<b><span style="color:rgb(46,116,181)">Ministère des Ressources
naturelles et des Forêts</span></b><br>
<span style="color:rgb(46,116,181)">5700, 4<sup>e</sup> Avenue
Ouest, local A-108</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(46,116,181)">Québec (Québec) G1H 6R1</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(46,116,181)">Téléphone : 418 627-8669,
poste 704304</span><br>
<b><u><span style="color:rgb(46,116,181)"><a href="mailto:jean-francois.bourdon@mrnf.gouv.qc.ca" target="_blank">jean-francois.bourdon@mrnf.gouv.qc.ca</a></span></u></b>
<br>
</span><a href="http://www.mrnf.gouv.qc.ca/" target="_blank"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(46,116,181)">mrnf.gouv.qc.ca</span></b></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="FR">De :</span></b><span lang="FR"> QGIS-Developer
<a href="mailto:qgis-developer-bounces@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank"><qgis-developer-bounces@lists.osgeo.org></a>
<b>De la part de</b> Emma Hain via QGIS-Developer<br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> 20 septembre 2023 20:57<br>
<b>À :</b> Nick Bearman
<a href="mailto:nick@geospatialtrainingsolutions.co.uk" target="_blank"><nick@geospatialtrainingsolutions.co.uk></a><br>
<b>Cc :</b> <a href="mailto:qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<b>Objet :</b> Re: [QGIS-Developer] Download troubles?
Download in the background?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I think this looks good Nick, could
we also put in a link to the QGIS hub page and to where
our links to the users groups are so that sorta provides
some 'support'. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sorta off topic:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I recently got contacted by someone
letting me know they donated so they could get support -
they thought I was the help desk for QGIS...Maybe this
is an indication of some UX/UI is required to send
people to our support pages???<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Em<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, 21 Sept 2023 at 01:07, Nick
Bearman via QGIS-Developer <<a href="mailto:qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p>Thanks for highlighting this Andreas. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p>If I might suggest a tweak to the popup layout:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Thank you!<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Your freshly baked copy of QGIS is downloading. (Make
this line bold and add a paragraph before the next
bit)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>QGIS is free of charge, and will always be free of
charge if downloaded from QGIS.org. (and another break
here)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>If you can afford to support the project and people
making this software, please consider making a small
donation to support our efforts. Whether you choose to
donate or not, we hope that you enjoy using our labour
of love and encourage you to share and spread your
downloaded copy far and wide so that others may enjoy
it too. Our very best regards!<br>
<br>
The QGIS Team<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>This might make it a bit more obvious. What do you
think?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>(I will leave those who are more technical than me to
discuss download speed issues).
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Best wishes,<br>
Nick.<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 9/20/23 08:19, Johannes Kröger
(WhereGroup) via QGIS-Developer wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p>Hi Andreas,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>ouch!<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Javascript is not required for the download. If it
is disabled, all OS options are expanded and the big
green buttons directly point to the files anyways.
The "donate" popup is only triggered in addition to
the normal link click (if javascript is enabled).<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>If the users really just not realise that a
download has started, maybe making the text that
says that QGIS is being downloaded bold on the
"donate" popup might help? The popup might just be
too intrusive and distracting even.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Some sites use images to point their users towards
the browser's download manager, maybe there is a
freely available library that does this for all
kinds of browsers and screens?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Downloads are often painfully slow though and might
even time out in bad cases I guess. Having some
more/faster download mirrors might help. The
<a href="http://osgeo.org/" target="_blank">osgeo.org</a> mirror is
often unusable (I think it is that mirror that most
often causes issues,
<a href="http://norbit.de/" target="_blank">norbit.de</a> usually seems
fine for me - from Germany though...). Here is one
story of a user in South Korea:
<a href="https://fosstodon.org/@ianthetechie/110943928875054838" target="_blank">
https://fosstodon.org/@ianthetechie/110943928875054838</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Maybe users see super slow or failing downloads and
think that it is a matter of donation.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>I am aware of <a href="http://download.osgeo.org/" target="_blank">download.osgeo.org</a>
and
<a href="http://norbit.de/" target="_blank">norbit.de</a> mirrors, are
there more? It would probably be a good idea to have
one in Asia and maybe one in Africa, depending on
the routing. At least for Asia OVH has cheap offers
that might just be good enough.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>PS, if a CDN (probably overkill) would be
considered: I am strongly against using Cloudflare
as they are a global surveillance opportunity for
the US and we would all be stupid not to assume that
any traffic going through them is logged by three
letter agencies. We should not participate in that
kind of centralisation. There are alternatives like
<a href="https://european-alternatives.eu/alternative-to/cloudflare" target="_blank">
https://european-alternatives.eu/alternative-to/cloudflare</a> . I would
happily research a good choice.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p>Could you try to find out more details about why
they get so confused?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Cheers, Hannes<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 20.09.23 um 08:50 schrieb
Andreas Neumann via QGIS-Developer:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi all,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Recently (past 1-4 months)
I get a lot of emails at <a href="mailto:finance@qgis.org" target="_blank">
finance@qgis.org</a> from people who say
that they donated but then could not download
QGIS. I think I got at least 40-50 such emails
until now.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sometimes they ask: how
many times do I have to donate until I can
download QGIS?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I then explain them that
donations are optional, often direct them to
the direct download page - and I tell them
that downloads may take longer.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I believe that many users
aren't aware that QGIS is downloading "in the
background". Because the QGIS downloads are
rather large this can take several minutes ...<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Or may there be other
problems with downloads? Does it require
Javascript to be enabled?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I wonder if we can display
some hint that QGIS is downloaded "in the
background" and can take a while to download
....<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I believe this is because
many users don't know how their browsers work
with the downloads of large files ...<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Is there
anything we can do to inform users and
enhance the download experience - so that I
don't get that many emails?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Thank you for
your replies,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Andreas</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
--<br>
Andreas Neumann<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://qgis.org/" target="_blank">QGIS.ORG</a>
board member (treasurer)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>QGIS-Developer mailing list<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>List info: <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>-- <u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Johannes Kröger / GIS-Entwickler/-Berater<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre>---------------------------------------------<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Aufwind durch Wissen!<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Web-Seminare und Online-Schulungen<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>bei der <a href="http://www.foss-academy.com/" target="_blank">www.foss-academy.com</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>---------------------------------------------<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre>WhereGroup GmbH<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>c/o KK03 GmbH<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Lange Reihe 29<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>20099 Hamburg<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Germany<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre>Tel: +49 (0)228 / 90 90 38 - 36<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Fax: +49 (0)228 / 90 90 38 - 11<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:johannes.kroeger@wheregroup.com" target="_blank">johannes.kroeger@wheregroup.com</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.wheregroup.com/" target="_blank">www.wheregroup.com</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Geschäftsführer:<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Olaf Knopp, Peter Stamm <u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 9885<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>-------------------------------<u></u><u></u></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>QGIS-Developer mailing list<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>List info: <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
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</blockquote>
<pre>-- <u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Nick Bearman<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>+44 (0) 7717745715<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:nick@geospatialtrainingsolutions.co.uk" target="_blank">nick@geospatialtrainingsolutions.co.uk</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre>Due to my own life/work balance, you may get emails from me outside of normal working hours. Please do not feel any pressure to respond outside of your own working pattern.<u></u><u></u></pre>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
QGIS-Developer mailing list<br>
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List info: <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer" target="_blank">
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Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer" target="_blank">
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</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<br>
<span>-- </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div style="margin-bottom:15pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,68,68)">Emma
Hain — Product Manager/Senior GIS Analyst<br>
<a href="mailto:emma@north-road.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(78,141,175);text-decoration:none">emma@north-road.com</span></a>
/ 0414 512 782<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<pre cols="72">--
Nick Bearman
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Due to my own life/work balance, you may get emails from me outside of normal working hours. Please do not feel any pressure to respond outside of your own working pattern.</pre>
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