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<p>Hi everyone,</p>
<p>Keeping things focused is a key requirement for our group to
function properly, so it's important not to get sidetracked too
much in discussions about minor details. In the past this happened
to us sometimes, so I see also that we need to try to avoid this
as much as possible.</p>
<p>On the other hand for me as a voting member it's right now
impossible to see the implications of the proposed amendments
without any comments and discussion about risks and benefits.<br>
</p>
<p>This is the legally binding base for out organisation, so it
should be treated with as much caution as possible. There is a
certain risk that we (even unintentionally) pass an amendment with
unexpected side-effects. To avoid this, an opinion building
process and community review is in my opinion inevitable. I would
therefore like to second the proposal brought forward here by
Denis.</p>
<br>
One approach I could think of, based on the Swiss system:<br>
<br>
<p> * Another member needs to second a proposal (as proposed by you,
compares to 100'000 signatures)<br>
</p>
<p> * Proposals are published for review 4 weeks before the AGM.
During this time, the proposal is no longer altered. But there are
two things that can happen</p>
<p> a) the PSC can bring forward a counterproposal up to 2 weeks
before the AGM<br>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p> b) the one who handed in the motion can withdraw the
proposal until 1 week before the AGM<br>
</p>
<br>
The key properties are<br>
<br>
* we avoid nitpicking on proposals by locking them in once
published for review. This should also give an incentive to motion
authors to make them "publication ready" (for which they are
obviously free to consult the community or PSC). At the same time,
the PSC is not obligated to do any work here.<br>
* there is a process for the community to correct a flawed proposal
by coming up with an improved version (through the PSC)<br>
* there is the possibility to make a proposal disappear if it's
clear the counterproposal is better or it's simply not worth it
because of new evidence from the discussion.<br>
<br>
<br>
I assume that in 90% of the cases things stay quiet and nothing of
these happens. And that's good like this.<br>
<br>
Best regards and thanks for a good discussion !<br>
Matthias<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03/07/2018 10:36 AM, Tim Sutton
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2DA92C31-AC89-49E2-A380-B88DB299A49D@kartoza.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
Hi Denis
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Thanks for your inputs Denis. I think it is better
to separate the idea of an AGM and an ‘open forum’ meeting.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">IMHO the AGM should be very focussed on the
governance mechanism of the project with very specific,
vote-ready motions put before the voting members. I believe our
current format already supports this. Simply raise a motion (for
example request to change the charter or other proposal to
regularise the management of the project) on the form provided
and we will share a subsequent form to the voting members where
they can vote on all the issues raised. One thing that could be
improved in the current system is that each motion should be
seconded by at least one other voting member.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">For open forum meetings where back and forth
discussion is needed, our hackfests are a good place to manage
this.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Anyway by all means things can always be improved -
I will leave it to you the voting members to work with the
incoming PSC and Board and Chair to iterate and improve on the
processes that are already in place!</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Regards</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Tim</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 07 Mar 2018, at 15:03, Denis Rouzaud <<a
href="mailto:denis.rouzaud@gmail.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">denis.rouzaud@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Hi,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Regarding having material required to
actually vote, I think that the processus could be
improved for the next AGM.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">To my opinion, we should receive the form
as read-only first. </div>
<div class="">There should be then a period of a few
days for discussions and questions. </div>
<div class="">The wiki could be a great place for this,
people could fill questions there, PSC could reply and
we would keep track of this.</div>
<div class="">Then only voting would be open.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">That would more correspond to the process
of a "real" AGM where it's much easier to address
questions but also express personal opinions or
remarks.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I don't know if you think this is too
complicated but we would avoid "voting before
knowing".</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Cheers,</div>
<div class="">Denis <br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Le mer. 7 mars 2018 à 08:14,
Tim Sutton <<a href="mailto:tim@kartoza.com"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">tim@kartoza.com</a>>
a écrit :<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"
class="">Hi
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">It is a good proposal but deviates
from how we have done things before so I have
not prepared this. I will ask all the nominees
to make a short 1 paragraph entry and then
distribute it to you all for review. If you
want to read these first, then please hold off
on casting your votes until we have shared
these.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Regards</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Tim</div>
</div>
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"
class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 07 Mar 2018, at 12:01,
matteo <<a
href="mailto:matteo.ghetta@gmail.com"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">matteo.ghetta@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br
class="m_-7653545375589401962Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="">Hi all,<br class="">
<br class="">
as voting member I think that maybe a
small and concise presentation on<br
class="">
what the new nominees intend to do for
QGIS, so what are their plans.<br
class="">
<br class="">
I don't mean a full and detailed
program, personally I know most of the<br
class="">
new members, but maybe other User
Group voting members don't and could<br
class="">
<div class="c-message__content"><span
class="c-message__body"></span></div>
<div class="c-virtual_list__item"
role="listitem" style="top:
1211.1px;">
<div class="c-message
c-message--light"
role="presentation"
data-qa="message_container">
<div class="c-message__content">
<div
class="c-message__content_header"><span
class="c-message__sender"><a
class="c-message__sender_link"
href="https://opengisch.slack.com/team/U295WR55Y"
target="_blank"
rel="noopener noreferrer"
data-stringify-suffix=" ">mbernasocchi</a><span
class="c-custom_status"><span><span
class="emoji-outer
emoji-sizer"
style="background-image:
url("https://a.slack-edge.com/c00d19/img/emoji_2017_12_06/sheet_google_64_indexed_256.png");
background-position:
58.8235% 17.6471%;
background-size: 5200%
5200%;"
data-codepoints="1f5d3-fe0f"></span></span></span></span><a
class="c-timestamp"
href="https://opengisch.slack.com/archives/C295LQ90V/p1520443269000823"
tabindex="-1"><span
class="c-timestamp__label"
data-stringify-prefix="["
data-stringify-suffix="]">1:21
PM</span></a></div>
<span class="c-message__body">20:00
ok for me.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="c-virtual_list__item"
role="listitem" style="top:
1260.6px;">
<div class="c-message
c-message--light
c-message--adjacent"
role="presentation"
data-qa="message_container">
<div class="c-message__content"><span
class="c-message__body"><a
class="c-mrkdwn__member
c-mrkdwn__member--link"
href="https://opengisch.slack.com/team/U3JAZ4L9E"
target="/team/U3JAZ4L9E"
data-member-id="U3JAZ4L9E"
data-stringify-text="@U3JAZ4L9E"
data-member-label="@marioba">@marioba</a>?</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<span class="c-message__body"></span>be
useful also for them.<br class="">
<br class="">
Thanks<br class="">
<br class="">
Cheers<br class="">
<br class="">
Matteo<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"
class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
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0px; line-height: normal; min-height:
14px;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<br
class="m_-7653545375589401962Apple-interchange-newline"
style="font-family: Helvetica;
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica;
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normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: center; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><span
class=""><span class=""><span class=""><span
class=""><span class=""><span
class=""><span class=""><span
class=""><span class=""><span
id="cid:162008727ae2451cdf21"><KartozaNewLogoThumbnail.jpg></span></span>
<div style="font-family:
Helvetica; font-size:
12px; font-style:
normal;
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class=""><br
class="m_-7653545375589401962Apple-interchange-newline">
<br
class="m_-7653545375589401962Apple-interchange-newline">
<br class="">
</div>
<div style="font-family:
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class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="font-family:
Helvetica; font-size:
12px; font-style:
normal;
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normal; font-weight:
normal;
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normal; text-align:
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0px; text-transform:
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class=""><b class="">Tim
Sutton</b></div>
<div style="font-family:
Helvetica; font-size:
12px; font-style:
normal;
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normal;
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normal; text-align:
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normal;
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normal;
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normal;
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min-height: 14px;"
class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="font-family:
Helvetica; font-size:
12px; font-style:
normal;
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normal; font-weight:
normal;
letter-spacing:
normal; text-align:
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0px; text-transform:
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class=""><b class="">Co-founder:</b><span
class="m_-7653545375589401962Apple-converted-space"> </span>Kartoza</div>
<div style="font-family:
Helvetica; font-size:
12px; font-style:
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normal;
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line-height: normal;"
class=""><b class="">Project
chair:</b><span
style="font-weight:normal"
class=""><span
class="m_-7653545375589401962Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="http://qgis.org/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">QGIS.org</a></span></div>
<div style="font-family:
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min-height: 14px;"
class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="font-family:
Helvetica; font-size:
12px; font-style:
normal;
font-variant-caps:
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class="">Visit <a
href="http://kartoza.com/"
target="_blank"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
class="">http://kartoza.com</span></a> to
find out about open
source:</div>
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class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="font-family:
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class="">Desktop GIS
programming services</div>
<div style="font-family:
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class="">Geospatial
web development</div>
<div style="font-family:
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class="">GIS Training</div>
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class="">Consulting
Services</div>
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min-height: 14px;"
class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="font-family:
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12px; font-style:
normal;
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class=""><b class="">Skype</b>:
timlinux </div>
<div style="font-family:
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class=""><b class="">IRC:</b><span
class="m_-7653545375589401962Apple-converted-space"> </span>timlinux on
#qgis at <a
href="http://freenode.net/"
target="_blank"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">freenode.net</a></div>
</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></div>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
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line-height: normal; text-align: center;" class=""><span>—</span></div>
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</div>
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normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: center; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span><span><span><span><span><span><span><span><span><img
apple-inline="yes"
id="523E5905-D2E0-4785-A5B9-80BA65427AB7"
src="cid:part10.AEE482DD.2E132D27@opengis.ch" class=""></span>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: center; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; margin:
0px; line-height: normal;
-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
min-height: 14px;" class=""><br
class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<br class="">
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: center; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; margin:
0px; line-height: normal;
-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
min-height: 14px;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: center; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; margin:
0px; line-height: normal;
-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0,
0);" class=""><b class="">Tim Sutton</b></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: center; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; margin:
0px; line-height: normal;
-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
min-height: 14px;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: center; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; margin:
0px; line-height: normal;
-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0,
0);" class=""><b class="">Co-founder:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Kartoza</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: center; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; margin:
0px; line-height: normal;
-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0,
0);" class=""><b class="">Project chair:</b><span
style="font-weight: normal;" class=""><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="http://QGIS.org" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">QGIS.org</a></span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: center; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; margin:
0px; line-height: normal;
-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
min-height: 14px;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: center; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; margin:
0px; line-height: normal;
-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0,
0);" class="">Visit <a
href="http://kartoza.com/" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="-webkit-text-stroke-color:
rgb(71, 135, 255);" class="">http://kartoza.com</span></a> to
find out about open source:</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: center; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; margin:
0px; line-height: normal;
-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
min-height: 14px;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: center; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; margin:
0px; line-height: normal;
-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0,
0);" class="">Desktop GIS programming
services</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: center; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; margin:
0px; line-height: normal;
-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0,
0);" class="">Geospatial web development</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: center; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; margin:
0px; line-height: normal;
-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0,
0);" class="">GIS Training</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: center; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; margin:
0px; line-height: normal;
-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0,
0);" class="">Consulting Services</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: center; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; margin:
0px; line-height: normal;
-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
min-height: 14px;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: center; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; margin:
0px; line-height: normal;
-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0,
0);" class=""><b class="">Skype</b>:
timlinux </div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: center; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; margin:
0px; line-height: normal;
-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0,
0);" class=""><b class="">IRC:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>timlinux
on #qgis at <a
href="http://freenode.net" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">freenode.net</a></div>
</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></div>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>