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<p>Hi, <br>
</p>
<p>Thanks Paolo for sharing those thoughts, I think you are
perfectly right to raise this topic and we indeed are in a moment
where this needs to be discussed. <br>
</p>
<p>I share your view that most of us are now in commercial companies
offering services around QGIS ecosystem, and probably it is true
that in some cases, this leads to having less time to contribute
back sometimes. <br>
</p>
<p>I'll share the situation here in France from my point of view. Up
to now, very very few customers have been funding QGIS
contribution. I can tell, because I was one of the very few
funders (maximum 4 persons probably). Two of us quit, and we fail
into that situation where France probably as higher user /
population ratio in the world, which makes me somewhat revolt and
puzzled. I even see customers OK with using open source, but
refusing "to pay for the others" (yes). Users are expecting a lot
(macOs packages, reliability, documentation, etc..) but giving
almost nothing lead to this very moment. <br>
</p>
<p>So in my understanding of the situation, our main challenge is to
structure a power-user/funder/influencer ecosystem that rely on
much more numerous people. This will generate economic activity
and progressively lead us to a situation close to PostgreSQL
ecosystem. I'm very confident that the QGIS involved companies can
work in a friendly environment and respect each other in that
scenario. At Oslandia, we are working closely with Dalibo - a
postgreSQL expert company- and they get m any users coming from
the geospatial world. QGIS lead to postGIS, postGIS to
postgreSQL... They manage contributed back money to PostGIS work
this year. So +1 with Andreas, let's get closer with our elephant
friend. <br>
</p>
<p>What differs in our economic model, is that Databases are the
foundations of an information system. Companies accept to pay for
support contract because they can't afford to be left alone. The
more criticity, the more money they are ready to give. How do we
get to a similar criticity situation for QGIS desktop? I think
QGIS server is one way to go here, it is the reason why big
companies get into serious and critical apps with QGIS. <br>
</p>
<p>I must also point out that this is not only a QGIS situation, the
whole OSGeo ecosystem is sharing this. My conclusion for the
French situation is that we need to work upstream, so I got
involved into the French Local Chapter of Osgeo, which hosts the
QGIS user group, and our roadmap follows the path open by Andreas
and the swiss user group. We need to switch from a benevolent base
to a professional network there, and help customers know each
other, share good practices, budgets, emulate, and give prooves of
seriousness to their hierarchy. That doesn't prevent form taking
fun however !</p>
<p>Best regards, and let's keep inclusive, open minded and forward
thinking as always! This is why I love this community :)<br>
</p>
<p>Régis<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 28/03/2019 à 08:36, Andreas Neumann
a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAB2Z92Ar4Nkg-dj=4iFZVVoRdVZwuwHjZ9X0HiJtjYsUckZ9uA@mail.gmail.com">
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perpelexed<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 at
21:01, Anita Graser <<a
href="mailto:anitagraser@gmx.at"
moz-do-not-send="true">anitagraser@gmx.at</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<div style="font-size:small">Thank you for
the thoughtful email, Paolo!</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed,
Mar 27, 2019 at 7:44 AM Paolo Cavallini
<<a href="mailto:cavallini@faunalia.it"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">cavallini@faunalia.it</a>>
wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Among these, I see two lines that are to
me particularly evident:<br>
* the increasing number and importance of
proprietary tools <span
class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small">...</span> </blockquote>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
* the shift from a volunteer-only
association<span class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small"> ...</span> </blockquote>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
To be very clear, as Chair I do not judge
these as problems<span
class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small"> ...</span> </blockquote>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
We are steadily growing stronger and
bigger, and some of these changes<br>
might genuinely be unavoidable <span
class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small">... </span><br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-size:small">I don't think
we're the only ones in this situation
but I'm having a hard time identifying
projects with a comparable community
structure. </div>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small"> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It is probably not comparable - but the PostgreSQL
community manages to thrive in a shared commercial,
but sticking to open source values, community. Most of
the work done in PostgreSQL is paid work (probably
close to 99%). But the companies involved share their
responsibility for the project and work in a friendly
environment where they respect each other and
collaborate.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>EnterpriseDB and 2ndQuadrant, and other smaller
companies have offices around the globe, hundreds or
thousands of employees and customers (top customers
like you can see f.e. at <a
href="https://www.enterprisedb.com/about-us"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.enterprisedb.com/about-us</a>
or <a
href="https://www.2ndquadrant.com/en/postgresql/who-uses-postgresql/"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.2ndquadrant.com/en/postgresql/who-uses-postgresql/</a>
and <a
href="https://www.2ndquadrant.com/en/case-studies/"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.2ndquadrant.com/en/case-studies/</a>
)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Note that I don't talk about Postgis, which is
unfortunately, often notoriously underfunded.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think that the PostgreSQL community could serve
as a future role model for QGIS. Not that I think
that we will ever be as big or relevant as PostgreSQL
- but perhaps we can learn a bit from them how they
manage to balance commercial interests vs. a shared
vision of an open project and community.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I talked to Bruce Momjian last year (a PostgreSQL
evangelist and EnterpriseDB employee). I think he
would have some interesting ideas and experiences to
share from his decade-long involvement with the
PostgreSQL community.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Should we try to reach out to other successful Open
Source projects and perhaps find out how they deal
with such problems that arise within our community?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Greetings,</div>
<div>Andreas<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
--<br>
Andreas Neumann<br>
</div>
<a href="http://QGIS.ORG" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">QGIS.ORG</a> board member
(treasurer)<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Open Source GIS Expert / Water management
mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:regis.haubourg@oslandia.com">regis.haubourg@oslandia.com</a>
tél: 0033 184 257 870
---------------------------------
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://oslandia.com/">http://oslandia.com/</a>
OSLANDIA IS AN INNOVATIVE COMPANY SPECIALIZED IN GIS ARCHITECTURE. WE
PROVIDE SERVICE ON OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE FOR WHICH WE ARE EDITORS OR
RECOGNIZED EXPERTS.</pre>
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