<div dir="ltr"><div>Good question - I'd also like to know.</div><div><br></div><div>Andreas<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 7 Sep 2020 at 17:33, Régis Haubourg <<a href="mailto:regis.haubourg@oslandia.com">regis.haubourg@oslandia.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Hi PSC, <br>
</p>
<p>this discussion stalled during summer, I would like to be clear
about what has been decided in the end as the next paid bugfixing
period - which starts within 4 days. <br>
</p>
<p>Is it clear who is eligible in the end to submit paid bugfixing
program ? <br>
</p>
<p>Best regards</p>
<p>Régis<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 29/06/2020 09:56, Saber Razmjooei
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"> > not junior developers but people with real
talent and skills, experienced developers with knowledge C++,
Qt, Python, etc.<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In our experience, working with GSOC students and
spending time to mentor and help them to get to know the
code/community, they have REAL talents and their
contributions have been on par or exceeding some of those
"senior" developers who get paid for living. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kind regards</div>
<div>Saber</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 at
17:26, Vincent Picavet (ml) <<a href="mailto:vincent.ml@oslandia.com" target="_blank">vincent.ml@oslandia.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
On 26/06/2020 11:27, Nyall Dawson wrote:<br>
> Vincent - snipping out the 99% of your email I agree
with -- don't<br>
> take my comments below as meaning I disagree with the
bulk of your<br>
> reply! :)<br>
<br>
Ok, great to hear :-)<br>
<br>
Let's discuss the remaining disagreement then.<br>
<br>
> On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 at 18:56, Vincent Picavet (ml)<br>
>> I tend to disagree here, because I consider that
growing the community and<br>
>> onboarding new developers has much more value in
the long run, than having a<br>
>> code developped 20% faster.<br>
> <br>
> Honestly, in the case of the current crop of "core
developers", I<br>
> think 20% is a huge disservice to their skills. I'd
honestly,<br>
> conservatively, estimate that a developer who already
has intimate<br>
> knowledge of the QGIS codebase, Qt, GDAL etc will be at
a minimum 10x<br>
> faster than a new contributor to the project. I don't
think anyone<br>
> could ever argue that we only get 20% more value from
funding Even's<br>
> time vs someone completely new to the project! (Try
20k% more value,<br>
> and you're in the right ballpark...)<br>
<br>
I did not want to underestimate the efficiency of long-term
core developers. Of<br>
course they are faster, and probably produce much better
quality for the code.<br>
"20%" was not to take as an absolute number, forget this
number. My point is not<br>
about numbers anyway.<br>
The reality is much more complex than this : QGIS codebase
is huge and even a<br>
long term contributor may have trouble in some areas of the
code. And other<br>
contributors having never contributed to QGIS could be
really efficient because<br>
they focus on an area they are expert in ( imagine Even
before any contribution<br>
to QGIS core, but knowing extensively GDAL ).<br>
My point is : diversity and growing developer's community is
difficult, while<br>
highly required for a project to be sane, avoid bus-factor
and continue to strive.<br>
<br>
<br>
>> I would personnaly like to see the grant program as
an onboarding program. But<br>
>> this is not a strong request, and maybe we could
have another program dedicated<br>
>> especially to onboarding new developers ?<br>
> <br>
> I disagree - I think given the current round of high
quality<br>
> submissions it's clear that even when we restrict the
program to<br>
> established contributors there's more high value work
vs funds<br>
> available. If we divert some of these grant funds to
onboard new<br>
> contributors then it's definitely going to be at the
cost of the<br>
> high-priority submissions we already receive.<br>
> <br>
> But regarding a dedicated program -- isn't GSOC ideal
for this? That's<br>
> exactly what it's oriented to, and doesn't cost us
anything...!<br>
<br>
I think we are not really talking of the same thing. GSoC is
for students,<br>
junior developers. While it is a great program which should
probably be used<br>
more to onboard new junior developers to the project, it is
not really what I<br>
had in mind.<br>
<br>
I am talking about onboarding new developers, not junior
developers but people<br>
with real talent and skills, experienced developers with
knowledge C++, Qt,<br>
Python, etc.<br>
GSoC is not adapted for them, and we do not really have any
incentive for this<br>
kind of people to join the project. This is where room for
improvement lies.<br>
<br>
>>> Fully agree, we should have the same thing for
a "non-coding" contributor<br>
>>> (think Richard, Harrisou, Giovanni ...) which
do an amazing job for QGIS as a<br>
>>> project but don't express it in C++<br>
>><br>
>> +1<br>
> <br>
> I'm also +1, but I think we should separate the terms
explicitly here.<br>
> I would like to see the "developer endorsed by QGIS"
title as a<br>
> reflection of their **coding** talents, and something
which can be<br>
> used on a CV/resume as a reflection of their
development skills. The<br>
> "endorsed, high value" community contributor title
should be used for<br>
> non-developer contributors only, and have it's own set
of guidelines<br>
> for eligibility.<br>
<br>
I always find differentiating "the developer" from other
contributors tends to<br>
minimize "other contributors" importance and value. But I
understand that<br>
eligibility could have different rules, and therefore a
specific role would be<br>
required. We would have to be careful to give them as much
importance as<br>
developers, if not more.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Vincent<br>
<br>
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</div>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Saber Razmjooei<br>
</div>
<div><a href="http://www.lutraconsulting.co.uk" target="_blank">www.lutraconsulting.co.uk</a><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
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</blockquote>
<pre cols="72">--
Open Source GIS Expert / Water management
mail: <a href="mailto:regis.haubourg@oslandia.com" target="_blank">regis.haubourg@oslandia.com</a>
tél: 0033 184 257 870
---------------------------------
<a href="http://oslandia.com/" target="_blank">http://oslandia.com/</a>
OSLANDIA IS AN INNOVATIVE COMPANY SPECIALIZED IN GIS ARCHITECTURE. WE
PROVIDE SERVICE ON OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE FOR WHICH WE ARE EDITORS OR
RECOGNIZED EXPERTS.</pre>
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<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-psc" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-psc</a></blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><br>--<br>Andreas Neumann<br></div><a href="http://QGIS.ORG" target="_blank">QGIS.ORG</a> board member (treasurer)<br></div></div>