<div dir="auto"><div>Hi all, no need to vote again, the budget was approved and it included an item for working on CI.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So the funds are available. I spoke about this yesterday with Andreas following up a request by Denis.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Nyall do I see it correctly that you and Denis (and Alessandro?) are probably the ones going to be doing most of the work?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Do you have a concrete plan and how can we help getting things moving?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">cheers Marco<br><br><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 28 Jan 2021, 23:11 Tim Sutton, <<a href="mailto:tim@kartoza.com">tim@kartoza.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Any reason we can't just vote on it here on teh ML Marco?</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">I am +1 to invest the money to pay the crack team to fix the tests. If Microsoft ever shafts us we can consider moving to a self hosted Jenkins (my preference) or that thing that Sandro mentioned, but at least we will have a working suite.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Regards</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Tim</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 8:53 PM Nyall Dawson <<a href="mailto:nyall.dawson@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nyall.dawson@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Thu, 12 Nov 2020 at 23:59, Marco Bernasocchi <<a href="mailto:marco@qgis.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">marco@qgis.org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> thanks everyone for the all the information and feedback, it was really helpful in preparing the budget proposal.<br>
<br>
Can I ask what the status on this request is? Travis has become<br>
completely unworkable over the last week, with new jobs taking 10hrs+<br>
to start, and then failing instantly because of the docker limits.<br>
It's really slowing down the bug fixing efforts, and I fear that if it<br>
degrades any further we'll be forced to just turn off Travis and as a<br>
result have NO regression testing protecting the QGIS codebase! argh<br>
:O<br>
<br>
Nyall<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
><br>
> cheers Marco<br>
><br>
> On Mon, 9 Nov 2020, 10:40 Alessandro Pasotti, <<a href="mailto:apasotti@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">apasotti@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Great, thanks!<br>
>><br>
>> You've done a really good job there.<br>
>><br>
>> Cheers<br>
>><br>
>> On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 10:20 AM Denis Rouzaud <<a href="mailto:denis.rouzaud@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">denis.rouzaud@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > Le lun. 9 nov. 2020 à 09:06, Alessandro Pasotti <<a href="mailto:apasotti@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">apasotti@gmail.com</a>> a écrit :<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 12:55 AM Nyall Dawson <<a href="mailto:nyall.dawson@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nyall.dawson@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > On Fri, 6 Nov 2020 at 20:57, Matthias Kuhn <<a href="mailto:matthias@opengis.ch" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">matthias@opengis.ch</a>> wrote:<br>
>> >> > ><br>
>> >> > > This would be desirable.<br>
>> >> > ><br>
>> >> > > It's unfortunately a bit of complexity included. As Alessandro said, the rendering tests are a good example of tests which are hard to maintain and - unfortunately - not well defined functions like we happen to have on e.g. database engine unit tests.<br>
>> >> > ><br>
>> >> > > To recall, when we started with CI some 5 years ago we were in the situation that we had a set of tests, which randomly passed on some dev machines and some on others. So effectively you had no chance to know if a test doesn't pass because of your machine or your patch.<br>
>> >> > ><br>
>> >> > > At least now we have a reference platform and know if a patch actually does cause changes. Which is the most important information.<br>
>> >> > ><br>
>> >> > > Currently many of the tests are already cross platform. And nobody is actively writing CI centric tests. It's just a matter of fact that the tests have a requirement to at least pass on the CI env because it's the only thing that can be enforced.<br>
>> >> > ><br>
>> >> > > When tests are updated to a new platform (ci or not), many of them will pass on a wider variety of platforms. Because bugs are fixed or they are made more generic. And some will just have reference images for one more platform added.<br>
>> >> > ><br>
>> >> > > So whatever we do we will do a step into the right direction. But there will be no guarantee that every test passes on your machine except if you make them all pass on your machine - which would be very welcome!!<br>
>> >> > ><br>
>> >> > > What you could also do is listing tests that are generic / platform independent (e.g. the expression tests would be a very good example) and then always just run these instead of the whole set of tests.<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > Just to add a few extra thoughts to the already comprehensive replies<br>
>> >> > given by Matthias and Denis:<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > - we had to do a very similar effort with updating existing tests when<br>
>> >> > we moved from Qt 4 -> Qt 5. We'll probably have to do another similar<br>
>> >> > effort in another 18-24 months or so. It's going to be a regular,<br>
>> >> > recurring task to go through and update all the tests which have been<br>
>> >> > introduced since the previous effort and ensure that they are<br>
>> >> > sufficiently tolerant to pass under different environments/software<br>
>> >> > versions. (Maybe we should consider adding "test maintenance" as a<br>
>> >> > regular yearly expense of the nature of 1.5 weeks?)<br>
>> >> > - we really should do a similar effort to get the existing tests<br>
>> >> > passing under mac os and windows too. I suspect there's some valid<br>
>> >> > bugs that the test suites would reveal if we could reliably run them<br>
>> >> > under windows/mac, but the real issues are drowned in the noise of<br>
>> >> > tests which haven't been designed to be cross platform compatible.<br>
>> >> > (This could be a good grant proposal idea for future funding rounds!)<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > And then my personal 2c:<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > We have a great test suite, and fantastic tools for making and<br>
>> >> > managing tests. Sure, there's a learning curve involved with them.<br>
>> >> > Sure, they ARE different to the test suites used by gdal, or geos, or<br>
>> >> > <insert other project here>. But that's just business as usual in<br>
>> >> > software development, and not at all reflective of inferiority in the<br>
>> >> > test suites. Can we please move on from this recurring point once and<br>
>> >> > for all and focus on the current relevant parts of this discussion<br>
>> >> > instead?<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > Nyall<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Hi,<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> While I agree on all points, there is one important thing that we<br>
>> >> should make it better while we work on it:<br>
>> >> make sure the test suite can **easily** run locally using the same<br>
>> >> docker images we are using in the CI process, I can do it but I cannot<br>
>> >> say it was easy to set up and it's probably overly complicated for<br>
>> >> most people.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > The new github workflow is far more simple and easier to read than the travis config.<br>
>> > Everything is in one file and should be easily replicable.<br>
>> > <a href="https://github.com/qgis/QGIS/blob/test-focal/.github/workflows/run-tests.yml#L101-L124" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://github.com/qgis/QGIS/blob/test-focal/.github/workflows/run-tests.yml#L101-L124</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Also, making the test suite independent from the particular CI we will<br>
>> >> use (GH workflows, Travis & C.) will make it easier to move it to<br>
>> >> another CI if needed.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > It should!<br>
>> > Let's when we move the CI for 3.16 to Github: the base image will remain (bionic) and we shouldn't have anything to touch in the tests.<br>
>> ><br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> This is of course also a matter of producing a good documentation for<br>
>> >> the process and the tools.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Kind regards.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> --<br>
>> >> Alessandro Pasotti<br>
>> >> QCooperative: <a href="http://www.qcooperative.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">www.qcooperative.net</a><br>
>> >> ItOpen: <a href="http://www.itopen.it" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">www.itopen.it</a><br>
>> >> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >> Qgis-psc mailing list<br>
>> >> <a href="mailto:Qgis-psc@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Qgis-psc@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
>> >> <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-psc" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-psc</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Alessandro Pasotti<br>
>> QCooperative: <a href="http://www.qcooperative.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">www.qcooperative.net</a><br>
>> ItOpen: <a href="http://www.itopen.it" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">www.itopen.it</a><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div style="text-align:center">------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div style="text-align:center"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;display:inline"></div><img src="https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=7ebbf93252&view=fimg&th=15a9e43c0bbf93ca&attid=0.1&disp=emb&realattid=9436e64174762963_0.1.1&attbid=ANGjdJ-WL_J24nvBiYidJ0V0xpdsYqRwswi5nq5oywcJEHC7twYVMrxG0y-GNPu_ahJthV8ktXwYuHoVm5DI2FrRAtPzelTRHrsE2wweR9uu8wT-zz2hNRqFwi4SorQ&sz=s0-l75-ft&ats=1488721675176&rm=15a9e43c0bbf93ca&atsh=1" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><br></div><div style="text-align:center">Tim Sutton</div><div style="text-align:center"><span style="text-align:start">Visit </span><a href="http://kartoza.com/" style="text-align:start" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://kartoza.com</a><span style="text-align:start"> to find out about open source:</span><br style="text-align:start"><span style="text-align:start"> * Desktop GIS programming services</span><br style="text-align:start"><span style="text-align:start"> * Geospatial web development</span></div><div style="text-align:center"><span style="text-align:start">* GIS Training</span></div><div style="text-align:center"><span style="text-align:start">* Consulting Services</span></div><div style="text-align:center"><div style="text-align:center"></div><div style="text-align:start"><div style="text-align:center">Tim is a member of the QGIS Project Steering Committee</div><div style="text-align:center">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div></div>