<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Huge +1 from me too - thanks Marco!</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Regards</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Tim</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 2:35 PM Jeff McKenna <<a href="mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com">jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Dear Marco,<br>
<br>
I want to thank-you for this summary, and give you specifically a pat on <br>
the back (or hug?). Yes it's a whole community, but you took the time <br>
to tackle a summary of topics that can be quite sensitive. You are <br>
doing a great job as the chair. (sometimes we forget to thank people <br>
directly) Life isn't easy, but your summary really helped make sense of <br>
it all.<br>
<br>
Thank-you,<br>
<br>
-jeff<br>
(no title, just a huge longtime supporter of QGIS & <a href="http://QGIS.ORG" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">QGIS.ORG</a>)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2022-12-06 11:57 a.m., Marco Bernasocchi via QGIS-Developer wrote:<br>
> Dear all, thanks a lot for all the feedback,<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> As you might remember, the aim of the thread was indeed to discuss the <br>
> proposed budget, so I'll to try to address most of the mentioned points <br>
> in all emails without a specific order, trying to convey how things came <br>
> to this proposal and why the PSC believes it is the best way forward for <br>
> QGIS.org.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> As a first reminder, all the discussions happened in public, and you can <br>
> read the minutes at <a href="https://github.com/qgis/QGIS/wiki#psc-meetings" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://github.com/qgis/QGIS/wiki#psc-meetings</a> <br>
> <<a href="https://github.com/qgis/QGIS/wiki#psc-meetings" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://github.com/qgis/QGIS/wiki#psc-meetings</a>>.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> The proposal came out of a need to solve a pressing issue we've been <br>
> dragging along for some time now and "escalated" when Harrisou sent once <br>
> again an appeal for help, and nobody from the developer ml responded [1]:<br>
> <br>
> I'll quote it as a reminder of the stark message showing how alone he <br>
> felt in his efforts:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
>>It's reassuring to discover that there are other channels; at<br>
> <br>
>>least I can say to myself that the total silence to my call is not due to<br>
> <br>
>>some disinterest. - Harrisou<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Even to this, the only answers were from Tim suggesting to Harrisou to <br>
> join the next PSC to find solutions. The result of the PSC discussions <br>
> was the proposal to add a full-time paid documentation person to <br>
> effectively help Harrisou do what he has been trying to do for years <br>
> alone. He is doing a tremendous job in a part of the project where it is <br>
> challenging to get resources committed to it, and even when there were <br>
> funds available, funded documentation efforts thus far have barely <br>
> scratched the surface of the work that needs to be done. Even to the <br>
> appeal above, the only answers were from Tim suggesting to Harrisou to <br>
> join the next PSC to find solutions.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Harrisou and Tim (Harrissou looking after docs, Tim looking after <br>
> various web servers & sites) stand, as volunteers, to amplify their <br>
> efforts through the paid helpers rather than have their efforts replaced <br>
> by paid people.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Regarding the QGIS infrastructure, the fact is that despite trying to <br>
> onboard other people as volunteers, nobody is that interested in working <br>
> on these things. Tim mentioned personally having walked various people <br>
> through 'onboarding' as a sysadmin, and nothing came of it. Richard and <br>
> Jürgen (who also help manage the infrastructure) may have different <br>
> feelings, but Tim feels he is (allow me a direct quote here with his <br>
> permission) "getting older and dumber," and we should have a plan in <br>
> place to make sure the infrastructure that keeps the project running is <br>
> professionally managed even when he will be too busy running his <br>
> ever-growing farm :)<br>
> <br>
> Jürgen also mentioned the same issue regarding the infrastructure behind <br>
> windows packaging in the past.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Regarding transparency of the decision proposed, I'd like to separate <br>
> the issue into three parts; 1) transparency regarding using Kartoza as a <br>
> proxy, 2) transparency in hiring and finally and 3) transparency in the <br>
> process of deciding to try hiring ‘outside’ people to support our project.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Starting with the last point, I'd like to remind you all that we are <br>
> indeed discussing if we want to accept this proposal right here in this <br>
> thread, and finally, it will go to the voting members for <br>
> decision-making. I really need help seeing how the PSC is not being <br>
> transparent here. I'm saddened to see a perception of us trying to hide <br>
> things when all is openly discussed/logged in reality.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Regarding using Kartoza as a proxy company, it was indeed not selected <br>
> based on being an open call - much like we appoint trusted developers to <br>
> do bug fixing or other key efforts for the project. We are thankful to <br>
> Kartoza for taking over the burden of doing it. Quoting Tim again: "It <br>
> is only a hassle for us, and I only offered to do it through Kartoza to <br>
> ‘make it happen’ rather than some desire to do it through Kartoza". <br>
> Obviously, if the community wishes to use another company/individuals <br>
> here, it is absolutely no problem to open the proxy up to another <br>
> company. If anyone is interested, please contact the PSC mailing list <br>
> with a concrete proposal on how to go forward.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Finally, on the transparency in hiring: this doesn't make any sense to <br>
> me. Hiring is a private process. People send their private CVs, often in <br>
> secret, from their current employers, to whom they are being "disloyal". <br>
> People applying should not have visibility of their competitors for the <br>
> job. In the case of Kartoza, they have a POPIA [2] (something like <br>
> GDPR), which governs what personal information they can share.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Tim has shared all of the documentation writer's CVs with Harrissou, and <br>
> he can pick whoever he thinks is best for the job. Tim also gave some <br>
> recommendations based on basic screening of GIS skills, technical <br>
> writing skills, whether they submitted a writing sample etc. For the <br>
> infrastructure developer position, they sent all the applicants a <br>
> standard assignment as they do as part of their normal recruitment <br>
> process and had their developers review and shortlist. I don't know how <br>
> we could sensibly (stressing that part since QGIS.org is not Google and <br>
> the like...) do anything differently. Here also, we are more than happy <br>
> if others have better know-how to come up with constructive proposals on <br>
> handling things if the budget items are approved.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Please note that Kartoza would absorb the candidates they found or <br>
> discontinue the hiring process if the budget was not approved.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Another raised issue was that paid support people would demotivate <br>
> volunteers: When we started with the paid bug fixing programme and other <br>
> funded development, there was the same fear expressed; I think the <br>
> success of those programs and the incredible amount of volunteer-driven <br>
> contributions we are getting speak for themselves. We need to catch up <br>
> on non-coders, as Jeff McKenna said (although out of a misread); we have <br>
> been a bit stuck in the 2000s, where developers are the superstars. <br>
> Currently, developers creating new shiny features are often getting much <br>
> more [visibility|kudos|salary|...] in return, even though people "behind <br>
> the scenes" writing documentation, translating stuff, triaging bugs, <br>
> reviewing PRs, managing servers, keeping CI happy, ... are the actual <br>
> superstars and should be treated as such.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> It is indicative to me that we, unfortunately, are still partly back in <br>
> 2000 when I read comments like: "one of my takes is that seeing the <br>
> grant budget disappear this year is a pity, especially seeing other <br>
> amounts dedicated to documentation, for example.". The grant programme <br>
> is indeed a fantastic program, and it is a shame to see it downsized, <br>
> but our documentation and web infrastructure are also important. The <br>
> work that happens in these areas is less visible and garners less <br>
> attention. And yes, for once, we propose to downscale coding in favour <br>
> of documentation. Hurra to that!<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Regarding the note on social dumping, I do not agree at all with that. <br>
> We are offering a highly competitive salary in the market where the <br>
> applicants live; this is a widely respected practice done by projects <br>
> like Google Summer of code as well. A nice side effect is that we are <br>
> starting to use funds in economies other than the usual "Rich" countries <br>
> where probably 90-95% of our funds usually go.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> As for the budget always needing to be bigger, we run a world-leading <br>
> software project for millions of people on a budget [apparently] <br>
> equivalent to the price of 50 licenses of our main competitor. We (the <br>
> whole QGIS community, not the PSC) are doing a pretty darn good job, <br>
> thanks to the countless hours of passionate work put into it by <br>
> volunteers and companies alike. We are far from perfect, we have a "get <br>
> things done while respecting others" attitude, and we have to make <br>
> compromises for efficiency. I'd never want to see any one of the members <br>
> of our community having to stop working on the project due to feeling <br>
> burnout from it.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> I hope I could address and answer most questions, and I encourage you to <br>
> look at the open-source landscape around us and see how successful <br>
> projects like KDE and Blender are doing the same thing as we propose <br>
> doing here.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> So for those responding to this thread in a quick fly-by reply, I appeal <br>
> to you to put some thought into why you object to this, who your <br>
> objection affects, what advantage objecting brings to the project versus <br>
> what benefit agreeing brings to the project, who's time and enthusiasm <br>
> you value and whose you don't."<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> As mentioned above, please join the PSC call starting soon if you wish <br>
> to discuss this more.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Cheers Marco<br>
> <br>
> [1] <br>
> <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/qgis-developer/2022-November/065211.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/qgis-developer/2022-November/065211.html</a> <<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/qgis-developer/2022-November/065211.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/qgis-developer/2022-November/065211.html</a>><br>
> <br>
> [2] <a href="https://popia.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://popia.co.za/</a> <<a href="https://popia.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://popia.co.za/</a>><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> --<br>
> <br>
> Marco Bernasocchi<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> QGIS.org Chair<br>
> <br>
> OPENGIS.ch CEO<br>
> <br>
> <a href="http://berna.io" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://berna.io</a> <<a href="http://berna.io" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://berna.io</a>><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> [1] <br>
> <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/qgis-developer/2022-November/065211.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/qgis-developer/2022-November/065211.html</a> <<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/qgis-developer/2022-November/065211.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/qgis-developer/2022-November/065211.html</a>><br>
> [2] <a href="https://popia.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://popia.co.za/</a> <<a href="https://popia.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://popia.co.za/</a>><br>
> <br>
> On Mon, 5 Dec 2022 at 18:18, Enrico Ferreguti <<a href="mailto:enricofer@gmail.com" target="_blank">enricofer@gmail.com</a> <br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:enricofer@gmail.com" target="_blank">enricofer@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> > As for A, one of my take is that seeing the grant budget<br>
> disappear this year is a pity, especially seeing other amounts<br>
> dedicated to documentation for example.<br>
> <br>
> I agree with Vincent and Matteo and even if I understand the need of<br>
> fund bugfixing and qt6 migration I would strongly recommend to<br>
> improve grants budget as a consistent way to interact with<br>
> community, furthermore I would enlarge core developers audience in<br>
> any way with targeted training and social involvement and lowering<br>
> the needed technical contribution skills. I thank you all for<br>
> sharing this interesting discussion.<br>
> <br>
> Il giorno lun 5 dic 2022 alle ore 11:27 Vincent Picavet (ml) via<br>
> QGIS-Developer <<a href="mailto:qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org</a>>> ha scritto:<br>
> <br>
> Hi Andreas, all,<br>
> <br>
> On 24/11/2022 16:09, Andreas Neumann wrote:<br>
> [..]<br>
> > We did not really discuss the hourly rates at the budget meeting.<br>
> > From 2021 to 2022 we raised the hourly dev rates from 100 to<br>
> 110 -<br>
> > and the hourly documentation rates from 40 to 44. I know that<br>
> both<br>
> > rates are low. We can discuss raising them again.<br>
> <br>
> My question was general, and actually includes all prices. I<br>
> have no definite opinion on this topic, as it can be complicated<br>
> given the disparity of inflation according to what price we are<br>
> talking about, and also geographically speaking.<br>
> <br>
> > The plan for the two positions was not to have direct<br>
> employees of<br>
> > <a href="http://QGIS.ORG" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">QGIS.ORG</a> <<a href="http://QGIS.ORG" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://QGIS.ORG</a>> <<a href="http://QGIS.ORG" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://QGIS.ORG</a><br>
> <<a href="http://QGIS.ORG" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://QGIS.ORG</a>>>, but to use a proxy company, in our case<br>
> > Kartoza, to act as the employer. Also - our budget does not allow<br>
> > regular European or North-American salaries. With these<br>
> limitations<br>
> > at hand, we can use Kartoza as a proxy to hire employees in<br>
> certain<br>
> > parts of the world where the salaries we can offer can be<br>
> attractive<br>
> > - and where they have talented people to work on some of our<br>
> issues<br>
> > (sysadmin, documentation, etc.)<br>
> <br>
> I have very mixed feelings about this, and it raises lots of<br>
> questions we definitely have to clear out before establishing<br>
> any process.<br>
> <br>
> - Using a proxy company is very similar to me than having direct<br>
> employees, if these positions have no clear limits of time and<br>
> perimeter<br>
> - Using a proxy company instead of direct employees can be<br>
> considered illegal according to local legislation. I do not know<br>
> for Swiss law.<br>
> - How was Kartoza selected ? Was there an open process for other<br>
> companies to apply ? Who decided and on what criteria ? The fact<br>
> that the company owned by a member of QGIS PSC is selected is a<br>
> big red flag for me, if the process is not fully transparent and<br>
> fair for others.<br>
> - "our budget does not allow European or North-American<br>
> salaries" : see below for the budget volume comments. But I have<br>
> very mixed feelings about this statement : it sounds exactly<br>
> like social dumping. I do not know what would be fair to select<br>
> employees, and I recognize it to be a complex issue, but in some<br>
> ways it does not feel right.<br>
> <br>
> > For the documentation part: Tim and Harrissou are involved in the<br>
> > selection process of the candidates.<br>
> <br>
> Is the process and selection committee documented somewhere ?<br>
> <br>
> > I agree that the grant budget with 10k is not very attractive. We<br>
> > also discussed skipping it for one year. Not sure what is<br>
> better ...<br>
> ><br>
> > BTW: you can all help to find new sustaining members ... that<br>
> would<br>
> > increase our budget and would allow us to pay better hourly rates<br>
> > ...<br>
> ><br>
> > I wish we had a larger budget at hand than the +/- 200k € we<br>
> seem to<br>
> > be able to attract each year. From certain countries where we<br>
> know we<br>
> > have a lot of QGIS users (France, Italy - just to name two of<br>
> them)<br>
> > there are not a lot of sustaining members or donations other than<br>
> > from a few private persons and very small companies. Maybe<br>
> companies<br>
> > like yours could help us to get in touch with the larger<br>
> companies<br>
> > with a lot of QGIS users that could become new sustaining<br>
> members ...<br>
> > Do you think that would be possible?<br>
> <br>
> First of all, complaining that our budget is too low is<br>
> definitely not the way to consider the problem : QGIS.org budget<br>
> will, by definition, **always** be too low compared to what we<br>
> could need. Developing a software and managing a community is a<br>
> boundless task and you can always find tasks and work packages<br>
> to spend all the money you can imagine of.<br>
> <br>
> I agree that QGIS.org could attract more sustaining members. I<br>
> just hope you are not accusing Oslandia of not doing our job of<br>
> proselitysm, QGIS community support, communication and globally<br>
> QGIS.org and QGIS software contributions. We do our part for sure.<br>
> <br>
> ... And this is not the point, as I said the question I raise is<br>
> not how to increase our budget, since the exact same issues will<br>
> araise with a larger budget.<br>
> <br>
> The questions are :<br>
> - A/ how do we use our existing budget for most important things<br>
> to support<br>
> - B/ what our decisions processes are, where are they<br>
> documented, and are they clear, transparent and fair<br>
> <br>
> As for A, one of my take is that seeing the grant budget<br>
> disappear this year is a pity, especially seeing other amounts<br>
> dedicated to documentation for example.<br>
> <br>
> As for B, I consider that there is a lot of progress to do to<br>
> make recent decisions and actions clean and trustworthy.<br>
> <br>
> Should we want to attract new sustaining members giving money to<br>
> QGIS.org, we must have an exemplary behaviour in how we decide<br>
> how to use this money.<br>
> <br>
> Vincent<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> ><br>
> > Andreas<br>
> ><br>
> > On Thu, 24 Nov 2022 at 15:05, Vincent Picavet (ml) via<br>
> QGIS-Developer<br>
> > <<a href="mailto:qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org</a>><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org</a>>>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > Hello,<br>
> ><br>
> > Thanks for sharing the budget with the community.<br>
> ><br>
> > A few questions / remarks : - in most countries, we can see a<br>
> general<br>
> > inflation, having consequences on every kind of costs ( hosting,<br>
> > salaries…). Did you take this context into account when<br>
> preparing the<br>
> > budget, especially when basing planned 2023 costs on actual 2022<br>
> > costs ? - the cut on Grant budget is really hard. With a<br>
> "reasonable"<br>
> > mean budget of 5K per grant, this would mean 2 grants only<br>
> this year.<br>
> > It sounds more or less like the end of the grant program. Who<br>
> would<br>
> > candidate if chances to be selected are really low ? Wouldn't<br>
> there<br>
> > be a way to mitigate it a bit, through various smaller budget<br>
> > reductions to other budget lines ? The increase in documentation<br>
> > contribution is huge compared to the grant decrease. I fear<br>
> that we<br>
> > loose grants as a mean to attract new core developers.<br>
> ><br>
> > My most important remark is about "allow for a regular small<br>
> salary<br>
> > .. for one person on each item". Disclaimer : I am quite strongly<br>
> > against QGIS.org having employees. If we are in the process<br>
> of having<br>
> > "regular workers" for <a href="http://qgis.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">qgis.org</a> <<a href="http://qgis.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://qgis.org</a>><br>
> <<a href="http://qgis.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://qgis.org</a> <<a href="http://qgis.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://qgis.org</a>>>, then we really have<br>
> > to work hard on : - having a clear, written and transparent<br>
> process<br>
> > for how to select these people - .. process including a fair<br>
> way for<br>
> > anyone to candidate I may have missed some communications,<br>
> but I have<br>
> > not seen this in place up to now. This is definitely something we<br>
> > have to put in place before having some internal troubles.<br>
> ><br>
> > Best regards, Vincent<br>
> ><br>
> > On 24/11/2022 12:07, Marco Bernasocchi wrote:<br>
> >> Hi all, we prepared the QGIS budget for 2023 and would like to<br>
> >> have feedback before submitting it to the voting members for<br>
> >> approval. You can directly leave comments in the file [1].<br>
> >><br>
> >> Please let us have any Feedback until December 4th. On december<br>
> >> 7th we'll send the budget for vote.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Cheers Marco<br>
> >><br>
> >> [1]<br>
> >><br>
> <a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WyoZCKOehNhU5YB4pFPOuiJbie1mUmMPiq8YW7qyez0/edit?usp=sharing" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WyoZCKOehNhU5YB4pFPOuiJbie1mUmMPiq8YW7qyez0/edit?usp=sharing</a> <<a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WyoZCKOehNhU5YB4pFPOuiJbie1mUmMPiq8YW7qyez0/edit?usp=sharing" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WyoZCKOehNhU5YB4pFPOuiJbie1mUmMPiq8YW7qyez0/edit?usp=sharing</a>><br>
> >><br>
> <<a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WyoZCKOehNhU5YB4pFPOuiJbie1mUmMPiq8YW7qyez0/edit?usp=sharing" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WyoZCKOehNhU5YB4pFPOuiJbie1mUmMPiq8YW7qyez0/edit?usp=sharing</a> <<a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WyoZCKOehNhU5YB4pFPOuiJbie1mUmMPiq8YW7qyez0/edit?usp=sharing" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WyoZCKOehNhU5YB4pFPOuiJbie1mUmMPiq8YW7qyez0/edit?usp=sharing</a>>><br>
> ><br>
> >><br>
> ><br>
> <<a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WyoZCKOehNhU5YB4pFPOuiJbie1mUmMPiq8YW7qyez0/edit?usp=sharing" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WyoZCKOehNhU5YB4pFPOuiJbie1mUmMPiq8YW7qyez0/edit?usp=sharing</a> <<a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WyoZCKOehNhU5YB4pFPOuiJbie1mUmMPiq8YW7qyez0/edit?usp=sharing" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WyoZCKOehNhU5YB4pFPOuiJbie1mUmMPiq8YW7qyez0/edit?usp=sharing</a>><br>
> ><br>
> <<a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WyoZCKOehNhU5YB4pFPOuiJbie1mUmMPiq8YW7qyez0/edit?usp=sharing" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WyoZCKOehNhU5YB4pFPOuiJbie1mUmMPiq8YW7qyez0/edit?usp=sharing</a> <<a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WyoZCKOehNhU5YB4pFPOuiJbie1mUmMPiq8YW7qyez0/edit?usp=sharing" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WyoZCKOehNhU5YB4pFPOuiJbie1mUmMPiq8YW7qyez0/edit?usp=sharing</a>>>><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> >> -- Marco Bernasocchi<br>
> >><br>
> >> QGIS.org Chair OPENGIS.ch CEO <a href="http://berna.io" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://berna.io</a><br>
> <<a href="http://berna.io" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://berna.io</a>> <<a href="http://berna.io" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://berna.io</a> <<a href="http://berna.io" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://berna.io</a>>><br>
> >> <<a href="http://berna.io" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://berna.io</a> <<a href="http://berna.io" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://berna.io</a>> <<a href="http://berna.io" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://berna.io</a><br>
> <<a href="http://berna.io" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://berna.io</a>>>><br>
> >><br>
> >> _______________________________________________ Qgis-psc<br>
> mailing<br>
> >> list <a href="mailto:Qgis-psc@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Qgis-psc@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Qgis-psc@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Qgis-psc@lists.osgeo.org</a>><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Qgis-psc@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Qgis-psc@lists.osgeo.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Qgis-psc@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Qgis-psc@lists.osgeo.org</a>>><br>
> >> <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-psc" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-psc</a><br>
> <<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-psc" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-psc</a>><br>
> >> <<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-psc" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-psc</a><br>
> <<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-psc" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-psc</a>>><br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________ QGIS-Developer<br>
> > mailing list <a href="mailto:QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org</a>><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org</a>>> List info:<br>
> > <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer</a><br>
> <<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer</a>><br>
> > <<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer</a><br>
> <<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer</a>>><br>
> > Unsubscribe:<br>
> <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer</a><br>
> <<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer</a>><br>
> > <<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer</a><br>
> <<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer</a>>><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > --<br>
> ><br>
> > -- Andreas Neumann <a href="http://QGIS.ORG" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">QGIS.ORG</a> <<a href="http://QGIS.ORG" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://QGIS.ORG</a>><br>
> <<a href="http://QGIS.ORG" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://QGIS.ORG</a> <<a href="http://QGIS.ORG" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://QGIS.ORG</a>>> board member<br>
> > (treasurer)<br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> QGIS-Developer mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org</a>><br>
> List info:<br>
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> Unsubscribe:<br>
> <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer</a><br>
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> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
> Marco Bernasocchi<br>
> <br>
> QGIS.org Chair<br>
> OPENGIS.ch CEO<br>
> <a href="http://berna.io" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://berna.io</a> <<a href="http://berna.io" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://berna.io</a>><br>
> <br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div style="text-align:center">------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div style="text-align:center"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;display:inline"><img src="https://kartoza.com/files/KartozaNewLogoThumbnail.jpg" width="96" height="75"></div><br></div><div style="text-align:center">Tim Sutton</div><div style="text-align:center"><span style="text-align:start">Visit </span><a href="http://kartoza.com/" style="text-align:start" target="_blank">http://kartoza.com</a><span style="text-align:start"> to find out about open source:</span><br style="text-align:start"><span style="text-align:start"> * Desktop GIS programming services</span><br style="text-align:start"><span style="text-align:start"> * Geospatial web development</span></div><div style="text-align:center"><span style="text-align:start">* GIS Training</span></div><div style="text-align:center"><span style="text-align:start">* Consulting Services</span></div><div style="text-align:center"><div style="text-align:center"></div><div style="text-align:start"><div style="text-align:center">Tim is a member of the QGIS Project Steering Committee</div><div style="text-align:center">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>