<div dir="auto"><div>let's continue the discussion on the psc list.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Cheers Marco <br><br><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>From: <strong class="gmail_sendername" dir="auto">Marco Bernasocchi</strong> <span dir="auto"><<a href="mailto:marco@qgis.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">marco@qgis.org</a>></span><br>Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2024, 23:07<br>Subject: Re: [Qgis-voting-members] [Qgis-user] Call For Community Voting members ballot<br>To: Stefanos Natsis <<a href="mailto:uclaros@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">uclaros@gmail.com</a>><br>Cc: Raymond Nijssen <<a href="mailto:r.nijssen@terglobo.nl" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">r.nijssen@terglobo.nl</a>>, QGIS Community <<a href="mailto:qgis-community-team@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">qgis-community-team@lists.osgeo.org</a>>, <<a href="mailto:qgis-voting-members@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">qgis-voting-members@lists.osgeo.org</a>>, Germán Carrillo <<a href="mailto:carrillo.german@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">carrillo.german@gmail.com</a>><br></div><br><br><div dir="auto">Hi all and thanks for discussing this.<div dir="auto"><br><div dir="auto">Stefanos, I understand you point but I evenmore trust that our community members have the integrity to seriously take the responsibility they have.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Harrissou has done this in an exemplary manner for many years. I trust Germán will do the same. Isabel which you also mention is not a country voting representative since over a year.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Honorary members are defacto mutually exclusive to community voting members as these are personal roles.</div><div dir="auto">When Nyall and Harrissou became honorable members, they were removed from the community voting members.</div><div dir="auto">We probably should clarify this in the statutes</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The OSGeo vote is true, but honestly quite a moot point.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Nevertheless, if this should be discussed more in depth, i recommend getting the discussion going and be ready with a proposal for the 2025 AGM as what is being discussed here requires a change in the bylaws.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Also as Régis said, the reality is much more complicated than you seem to estimate, being the country representative is not simply showing up for a vote and forget it until next year. It takes time and commitment because you're basically running a vote to get a decision on what you should as Ray nicely explained.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Of course, if this matter arising would come in 2025 it would be voted upon, but personally I think this would be a step in the wrong direction signaling untrust in the country voting members representatives.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><span class="gmail_chip gmail_plusreply" dir="auto"><a href="mailto:carrillo.german@gmail.com" style="color:#15c;text-decoration:underline" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">@Germán Carrillo</a></span><span> no need to step down from anything right now as your and Harrissou's situation is completely correct per our statutes.</span></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Cheers Marco </div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, 22 Nov 2024, 09:57 Germán Carrillo via Qgis-voting-members, <<a href="mailto:qgis-voting-members@lists.osgeo.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">qgis-voting-members@lists.osgeo.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Hi everyone,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for raising this topic.</div><div><br></div><div>First of all, thanks to all of you for being elected as community voting member. It means a lot to me because I've loved this project and its community since almost a couple of decades ago!</div><div><br></div><div>On the other hand, I agree with making it explicit that a community member cannot be representing a user group at the same time for the sake of transparency and diversity.</div><div>If I had to step down as user group representative in order to accept the new community voting membership, I'd be willing to do so. </div><div>Please let me know if/when that's official/agreed, so that I can ask the Colombian user group to communicate a new representative person to the PSC.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Germán</div><div><br></div><div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">El vie, 22 nov 2024 a las 9:12, Raymond Nijssen via Qgis-voting-members (<<a href="mailto:qgis-voting-members@lists.osgeo.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">qgis-voting-members@lists.osgeo.org</a>>) escribió:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Maybe we can make it more transparent by listing what the user groups <br>
have voted for, together with the election results?<br>
<br>
For us in NL, they should not be secret anyway, as they have been <br>
discussed online in our chat group. And then "my" users can see that I <br>
really voted for what we agreed on.<br>
<br>
Also save me from the struggle of being integer! ;)<br>
<br>
Raymond<br>
<br>
<br>
On 22-11-2024 12:18, Matthias Kuhn via Qgis-voting-members wrote:<br>
> Hi,<br>
> <br>
> According to <br>
> <a href="https://www.qgis.org/community/organisation/#country-voting-members" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.qgis.org/community/organisation/#country-voting-members</a> <br>
> <<a href="https://www.qgis.org/community/organisation/#country-voting-members" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.qgis.org/community/organisation/#country-voting-members</a>> <br>
> the country voting members should represent the interest of the country <br>
> group and not their personal one, whereas as a community voting member <br>
> someone represents their personal opinion. I do see some potential <br>
> conflict of interest, but not a strong one as the two votes represent <br>
> different entities (through the same messenger).<br>
> <br>
> A question with respect to operation of such a potential rule would be <br>
> if being a country voting member would exclude someone from also <br>
> becoming a community voting member. Or if they will need to step back <br>
> from their country voting member position and the user group will need <br>
> to elect someone new. The first option would reduce the motivation for <br>
> someone to become a country voting member (because it rules out becoming <br>
> community voting member). The second option will require that the <br>
> country user group receives a timeframe to organize a new election.<br>
> <br>
> Matthias<br>
> <br>
> On Fri, Nov 22, 2024 at 11:38 AM Andreas Neumann via Qgis-voting-members <br>
> <<a href="mailto:qgis-voting-members@lists.osgeo.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">qgis-voting-members@lists.osgeo.org</a> <br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:qgis-voting-members@lists.osgeo.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">qgis-voting-members@lists.osgeo.org</a>>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Hi,<br>
> <br>
> I agree with Stefanos.<br>
> <br>
> People shouldn't have two votes - both as a user group and a<br>
> community voting member. They should be exclusive.<br>
> <br>
> BTW: Isabel isn't the chair of the Swiss QGIS user group anymore.<br>
> She handed over to François Voisard 1-2 years ago. I hope that<br>
> François received the voting invitation and not Isabel. I will<br>
> provide a PR request to fix the QGIS user group website.<br>
> <br>
> Greetings,<br>
> <br>
> Andreas<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 at 09:31, Stefanos Natsis via QGIS-User<br>
> <<a href="mailto:qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org</a>>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Hi Marco, lists<br>
> <br>
> While I trust German and the Colombian user group's democratic<br>
> procedures for delivering a vote to their representative, I<br>
> deeply believe that having the same person as both a country<br>
> voting member and a community voting member is a step in the<br>
> wrong direction.<br>
> It defeats the purpose of the Community Voting Members concept,<br>
> which is to bring in more people to the QGIS commons and have a<br>
> diverse pool of voters in the general meeting.<br>
> Imagine the case where all country user groups had the same<br>
> person as both a representative and a community voting member.<br>
> In addition to that, one could also be OSGEO voting member and<br>
> Honorary voting member too, casting a total of 4 votes! In<br>
> theory one could have the integrity to cast four independent<br>
> votes, but it would surely not look good to the public and we<br>
> should protect the project from such scenarios.<br>
> <br>
> I therefore suggest that the PSC amends the Charter [0],<br>
> explicitly making all four types of voting members as mutually<br>
> exclusive positions, similar to how voting member and PSC<br>
> positions are already mutually exclusive.<br>
> <br>
> I am sure the Colombian, French and Swiss user groups have<br>
> plenty of members that can step up to replace their representatives.<br>
> <br>
> I would love to read others' opinions on the matter!<br>
> <br>
> Best,<br>
> Stefanos<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> [0] <a href="https://qgis.org/community/foundation/charter/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://qgis.org/community/foundation/charter/</a><br>
> <<a href="https://qgis.org/community/foundation/charter/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://qgis.org/community/foundation/charter/</a>><br>
> <br>
> On Thu, 7 Nov 2024 at 18:45, Marco Bernasocchi <<a href="mailto:marco@qgis.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">marco@qgis.org</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:marco@qgis.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">marco@qgis.org</a>>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Hey Stefanos,<br>
> That is correct, German is already listed as the<br>
> *representative* of the user group Colombia.<br>
> The UG Colombia vote is obviously not his vote but the vote<br>
> of the Colombian user group.<br>
> <br>
> That means that he will be listed twice as we already have<br>
> for other members loke Harrissou and France.<br>
> <br>
> Cheers Marco<br>
> <br>
> On Thu, 7 Nov 2024, 02:12 Stefanos Natsis,<br>
> <<a href="mailto:uclaros@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">uclaros@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:uclaros@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">uclaros@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Thank you Marco,<br>
> and thank you to those taking the time to vote;<br>
> participating in commons is an important part of the<br>
> QGIS community.<br>
> <br>
> I have a question regarding the ballot, though:<br>
> The new QGIS website says Germán is already a voting<br>
> member as a representative of the Colombian user group.<br>
> Is the site not up to date? Was the user group disbanded<br>
> (I can see they lost their registered domain)?<br>
> <br>
> Best<br>
> Stefanos<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 at 23:03, Marco Bernasocchi<br>
> <<a href="mailto:marco@qgis.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">marco@qgis.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:marco@qgis.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">marco@qgis.org</a>>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Dear Community,<br>
> Thanks for taking the time to respond to the<br>
> community member vote.<br>
> The vote closed last week, and I want to share the<br>
> unofficial results.<br>
> <br>
> As stated, we had four slots up for elections and<br>
> five candidates.<br>
> <br>
> We had 20 votes with the following results<br>
> <br>
> Germán Carrillo 19<br>
> Stefanos Natsis 16<br>
> Isabel Kiefer 16<br>
> Damiano Lombardi 15<br>
> Saber Razmjooei 14<br>
> <br>
> I'm still waiting for a response from two voters I<br>
> could not confirm as active QGIS contributors, so<br>
> **these results still need to be considered<br>
> unofficial**.<br>
> If the voters were not confirmed as active, the only<br>
> absolute difference would be that Damiano would have<br>
> the same votes as Saber, and we would need to run a<br>
> second round between them.<br>
> <br>
> In this sense, I would already heartfeltly welcome<br>
> Germán, Stefanos, and Isabel to our voting members<br>
> community. Thank you so much for all you do for the<br>
> project!<br>
> <br>
> I'll follow up with the definitive results next week<br>
> with the next steps needed.<br>
> <br>
> Cheers Marco<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On Mon, 14 Oct 2024 at 00:35, Marco Bernasocchi<br>
> <<a href="mailto:marco@qgis.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">marco@qgis.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:marco@qgis.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">marco@qgis.org</a>>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Dear QGIS Community<br>
> <br>
> We invite you to elect your favourite community<br>
> voting members.<br>
> One community voting member is appointed in<br>
> tandem with each QGIS Country User Group Voting<br>
> Member.<br>
> <br>
> Due to the new usergroups, 4 Community member<br>
> spot are be up for election.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> The purpose of the voting members is to elect<br>
> the PSC and, where necessary, collectively make<br>
> decisions related to QGIS governance.<br>
> <br>
> Please read the instructions carefully and<br>
> establish your eligibility to vote, which I<br>
> repeat here for your convenience:<br>
> "Only community members with commit rights to an<br>
> official QGIS git repository or with write<br>
> access in transifex are eligible to vote nominees”<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Voting will close on Friday 25 October 2024<br>
> 23:59UTC.<br>
> The voting form is here:<br>
> <a href="https://forms.gle/64zomCdCtccHQqfp8" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://forms.gle/64zomCdCtccHQqfp8</a><br>
> <<a href="https://forms.gle/64zomCdCtccHQqfp8" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://forms.gle/64zomCdCtccHQqfp8</a>><br>
> <br>
> If you have any questions about the voting<br>
> process, please do not hesitate to contact me<br>
> <br>
> Cheers<br>
> Marco<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
> Marco Bernasocchi<br>
> <br>
> QGIS.org Chair<br>
> OPENGIS.ch CEO<br>
> <a href="http://berna.io" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://berna.io</a> <<a href="http://berna.io" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://berna.io</a>><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
> Marco Bernasocchi<br>
> <br>
> QGIS.org Chair<br>
> OPENGIS.ch CEO<br>
> <a href="http://berna.io" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://berna.io</a> <<a href="http://berna.io" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://berna.io</a>><br>
> <br>
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> <br>
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> <br>
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> <br>
> --<br>
> Andreas Neumann<br>
> <a href="http://QGIS.ORG" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">QGIS.ORG</a> <<a href="http://QGIS.ORG" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://QGIS.ORG</a>> board member (treasurer)<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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