[Qgis-user] [Qgis-developer] A discussion: is qgis still affordable in Europe if it violate the Inspire directive ?

[Alex Mandel]

I just checked the WMS 1.3.0 specification document
http://portal.opengeospatial.org/files/?artifact_id=14416

Extended optional features are allowed. There is a specific way to
include them. See section 6.9.5 "Extended capabilities and operations"
<_ExtendedCapabilities> or <_ExtendedOperations>

So perhaps we just need to wrap those extra options in a specific tag
for them to pass schema testing.

Thanks,
Alex

On 06/07/2014 12:35 PM, Alex Mandel wrote:
> I understand the issue now. In order to be WMS 1.3 complaint you can
> only use what's in the spec.
> 
> Looking at an analogy with html specs I find this limitation appalling
> short-sighted. It means there can be no innovation testing new features
> with the spec unless you manage to get it into the future spec. I find
> it hard to comprehend that clients don't just skip tags that fail to
> match a known tag. In html land its very common for some browsers to
> know some non-standard tags, which are new features in testing to be
> proposed or reworked into future standards. IE's policy of only adhering
> to the spec and including no experimental tag support has been seen be
> web designers as discouraging to any change. Why, because their is no
> way to publicly test new ideas.
> 
> So from the QGIS side, in order to comply we would need to reply with
> only allowed tags if a user requests WMS=1.3.0, we can reply with more
> stuff like GetPrint if they don't specify that version. Or perhaps we
> have to invent a 1.3.0+ variant specifically for when a user knows it's
> QGIS server.
> 
> Anyone more familiar with WMS that can shed more light on the best way
> to work around this issue and have both compliance and the ability to
> add extra features that have no standard equivalent yet.
> 
> My point still stands, that EU agencies with this concern should be
> funding compliance efforts, not removing funding for lack of compliance.
> 
> Thanks,
> Alex
> 
> On 06/07/2014 12:23 PM, Andrea Peri wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I need to be more clear.
>> My english is tremendous.
>> :)
>>
>> The Interoperability mean to have a small set of operation euals on EVERY
>> Server WMS.
>>
>> Equals mena same reqeust , same response.
>>
>> So when a Cleit WMS send a Request of GetCapabilities, The response should
>> be the same from QGIS-server or from GeoServer or From Mapserver.
>>
>> The same response mean that every product use the same dialect the same
>> tags and so on.
>>
>>
>> The XSD OGC is the dictionary that every wms client and server should use
>> to know the right language and tags.
>>
>> When the QGIS_Server response to a request GetCapbility with an XML that
>> contains the GetPrint tags.
>> The client wms say "hey what is this ? It is not in the XSD OGC. This mean
>> your response is wrong."
>>
>> Of course there are some client wms that don0t do a validation of response,
>> they HOPE that the response will be exactly as they exected.
>> If this is not true. They go in crash or other bad situation.
>>
>> Again the resence of a Tag not compliant with XSD OGC will create
>> incompatibility.
>>
>> Think to a client that will parse the xml response and say:
>>
>> ok the GetLegendGraphics tag is passed now there is "this well know tag".
>>
>> Instead arrive a GetPrint tags.
>>
>> The client wms become crazy.
>>
>> Of course QGIS will understand it.
>> But this is because you (qgis group) manage it to work.
>>
>> But other clients don't know that tag and so they are not able to extract
>> all the information from Capabilities response.
>> This is a bad practice also because create artiiciosally an incopatibility
>> with other products.
>> Instead Inspire ask for INteroperability from every product.
>>
>> Interoperability don't mean use all the same unique product. (This is the
>> microsoft philosophy)
>> Interoperability mean All the product must use the same little set of
>> command and the response at these command should be compatible
>> (interoperable) between all of them
>>
>> Actulally this is not true for the response xml of qgis-server at a
>> getcapability request.
>>
>> Hope to be better explain, now.
>>
>> Andrea.
>>
>>
>> 2014-06-07 20:49 GMT+02:00 Andrea Peri <aperi2007 at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Hi Alex,
>>>
>>> The question is not the print capability.
>>>
>>> The question is to LOST THE INTEROPERABILITY
>>>
>>> If qgis response an xml that is not OGC complaint it is not interoperable
>>> with other product.
>>>
>>> As example:
>>>
>>> if an public Administration will eed to do a cascading wms with the server
>>> wms of another public administration.
>>> The server before of all call for a GetCapability.
>>>
>>> If the response has a tag proprietary. If fail.
>>> This need Not Interoperable.
>>>
>>> I dont say do not do a getprint.
>>>
>>> I say remove tha tag GetPrint from the GetCapabilities response.
>>> It is not a OGC tag and so that response is not interoperable as requested
>>> from Inspire specification.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-06-07 20:36 GMT+02:00 Alex Mandel <tech_dev at wildintellect.com>:
>>>
>>> On 06/07/2014 11:19 AM, Andrea Peri wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> AFAIK the qgis server is not complaint with Inspire.
>>>>>
>>>>> This beacausethe Response to GetCapabilities is not responding to the
>>>>> requisite that the OGC will require for it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Originally the qgis was simply generate an incompatible response for the
>>>>> XSD of OGC.
>>>>>
>>>>> The response is ncompatible for thre thinks:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) the GetCapabilities is in the wrong namespace.
>>>>> This is a silly question anc could be easily resolved.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2)
>>>>> The presence of the GetStyle that is dismissed from OGC wms 1.3.0.
>>>>> Please notice that the Inspire require the WMS 1.3.0 .
>>>>> To resolve this the QGIS groups has copied the XSD of OGC and modifica
>>>> it
>>>>> to redirect to a different XSD not in the OGC site.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3) The presence of a Proprietary tag inserted without any reference to
>>>> any
>>>>> standard.
>>>>> The GetPrint.
>>>>> This is not present in any other product.
>>>>>
>>>>> My question is for any person of a Public Administration that plan or
>>>> are
>>>>> funding QGIS.
>>>>>
>>>>> In Europe the Inspire directive will ask to promove the
>>>> Interoperability.
>>>>>
>>>>> The interoperability strategy ask that every produc that allow the
>>>> inspire
>>>>> directive will speak the same language using the same tags and
>>>>> functionality.
>>>>>
>>>>> The QGIS solution to add a proprietary tag and to write a own different
>>>> xsd
>>>>> that overlap the standard OGC xsd will create the presuppost (AFAIK) to
>>>>> vilate the Inspire directive.
>>>>>
>>>>> If this is true A Public Administration should not use the QGIS.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a realproblem for us that invest many fund on qgis.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I like toknow the opinion of other public administration.
>>>>>
>>>>> Before still fund a product that seem to violate the Inspire directive
>>>>> principles.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thx,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To me the question is flipped. What needs to be funded, probably by EU
>>>> agencies to ensure INSPIRE compliance of QGIS Server?
>>>> It looks like you've put together the list of what needs to be fixed, so
>>>> the target should be easier. I am little puzzled about not allowing for
>>>> extra functions that are not in the standard. Unless the WMS has a print
>>>> standard an extra print add-on doesn't break any expectations. Who
>>>> knows, maybe that should be submitted as an extension to WMS.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Note, this should have no effect on funding and usage of QGIS desktop.
>>>> Maybe Paolo has good numbers on if EU agencies are funding Server vs
>>>> Desktop features.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Alex
>>>>