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Congratulations Carlos! That is right and the way!<br>
<br>
Ariel Rodríguez-Vargas<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 19.06.2015 08:19, Carlos Cerdán
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAFvg7WgQghCXhVYLJDpK5NPTL4Y4uOWDOiW43jb+MBKTO1pgUA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi there:<br>
<br>
As open source philosophy, personal motivation has a big
weight. One enthusiastic QGIS user can do difference to
motivate other GIS users into QGIS adventure.<br>
<br>
I'm working in a local government for two years and half. It
took me almost a year convince other that our geodatabase is
public and that we had to share shapes also, not PDF only
(Sorry... life in tropics).<br>
<br>
Next step was QGIS. I developed a pilot QGIS course into the
office: two hours each day, per one week, doing exercises with
our own data. <br>
<br>
QGIS has new followers over here. The seed is sown.<br>
<br>
Here, the main feature that attracts to QGIS is the
language.... so i think it'll be great if plugins can be also
translated.<br>
<br>
Cheers from Peru<br>
<br>
</div>
Carlos Cerdán<br>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2015-06-19 6:30 GMT-05:00 Bernhard
Ströbl <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bernhard.stroebl@jena.de" target="_blank">bernhard.stroebl@jena.de</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi
all,<br>
<br>
I think this is a useful discussion as QGIS is (at least
IMHO) the most popular OpenSource GIS in the public
sector. From the discussion I understand there are two
reasons to not use QGIS as the sole GIS in this context:<br>
One are missing features (e.g. missing dwg support). As
the discussion shows this can easily be overcome by
extending QGIS. Someone needs to coordinate and pay, of
course, but if there are enough users in need of this
particular feature it will be done. The second reason
seems less easy to tackle: A local government has many
different tasks related to spatial information: parks,
sewage, streets, water bodies, playgrounds, cadastral
information etc.. Most administrations lack the
knowledge to just take QGIS and model the needed data
themselves, instead they are willing to pay some money
to a company that does it for them (and I assume this is
what ESRI offers with "ArcGIS for Local Government").
But most of these companies are tied to a proprietary
GIS software. Maybe it is also the other way round: the
adminstration already has a proprietary GIS and looks
for someone to implement their needs with it because it
is (understandibly) unwilling to introduce another GIS
for this particular task.<br>
IMHO the situation is as it is because for the
overwhelming majority of local government tasks there
are no data standards. As soon as data standards exist
users are more free to choose the software that
addresses their needs, e.g. WMS-Servers. IMHO this makes
it hard "to extend QGIS to include more "applied"
solutions for local government". There are, however,
examples: The Swiss QGEP project implementing the Swiss
sewage data standard, the German PostNAS project
implementing the German cadastral data standard. For
non-stanardized data every user/company is free to model
the data according to their specific needs therefore
QGIS is probably not the right addressee. Instead the
national QGIS user groups could try to standardize their
data needs thus making it possible to enhance QGIS to
support this "standard", which then would lead to an
extension of QGIS.<br>
<br>
just some more thoughts :)<br>
<br>
Bernhard
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
Am 18.06.2015 um 08:10 schrieb Steve Golden:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div class="h5">
I am glad to have sparked some discussion. Being
a FOSS4G application forum,<br>
I am not entirely surprised by some of the
comments, but all are<br>
appreciated. (sorry upfront, this turned into a
long post which perhaps<br>
would be better suited on a blog of some sort)<br>
<br>
I am a bit envious of those individuals who work
in the public sector<br>
outside of the U.S. because it seems like there is
more acceptance and<br>
directive to use FOSS/FOSS4G as primary
applications and not just something<br>
that you "kick the tires" with. As for the use of
FOSS4G applications in<br>
the States, I think that Randal and others
summarized it pretty well (at<br>
least perhaps for the mid-sized cities). I knew
of some cities that were<br>
using Intergraph or MapInfo, but now it is ESRI
all the way. You read about<br>
some larger government organizations using FOSS
for GIS web services, but my<br>
main focus, at least for this post, is
small/mid-sized local government.<br>
ESRI seems to have done a very good sales job with
their "ArcGIS for Local<br>
Government" branding. And like my original post
suggested, if you look at<br>
all of the tools, apps, and maps that ESRI
provides for "free" (yes, this is<br>
part of the sales propaganda) it makes their
product look really good for<br>
local governments might see it as a great GIS
entry point or for those older<br>
systems looking to extend into more web mapping or
application development.<br>
And as others pointed out, there is the reality
that you have to have staff<br>
that are knowledgeable in open source and/or
willing to figure things out.<br>
Maybe things will change over time, but the
majority of people working in<br>
GIS learned with commercial software and probably
haven't had the<br>
opportunity or need to look beyond what they know
best and are comfortable<br>
with.<br>
<br>
Strange as it may seem, I work in local government
in the Bay Area, CA (i.e.<br>
Silicon Valley) and like Randal stated and as far
as I can tell, most of the<br>
local governments look around at one another and
if one city has a working<br>
solution, the others pretty much duplicate with
some variations (not<br>
necessary a bad idea as long as you duplicate an
intelligent solution).<br>
When I talk GIS to staff at other cities, people
generally want to discuss<br>
the latest tools and functions in ArcGIS. At
times I've tried to encourage<br>
others to look outside the box, but I generally
get a chilling look or<br>
responses as if they don't have a clue that there
are other technologies out<br>
there. However, I also think there are a lot of
mid-manager, non-GIS,<br>
non-technical individuals that are leading cities,
control the budgets and<br>
staffing and don't really know anything except for
what the majority of<br>
cities are using and what is advertized to them.
And like another poster<br>
stated, a lot of managers are more comfortable
spending a bunch of money on<br>
a commercial solution that is advertised to work.
Paul Ramsey has some<br>
great presentations <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.cleverelephant.ca/writings.html" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.cleverelephant.ca/writings.html</a>>
that<br>
speaks more to this which I can't agree more.<br>
<br>
It seems to me and others (based on comments in
this thread and across the<br>
net), that the FOSS4G solutions (QGIS probably
leading the way in desktop<br>
GIS) have evolved and are starting to replace
commercial providers like<br>
ESRI. If you follow ESRI products, you've
probably seen the changes to try<br>
to include more "free" functions, tools, and
access to certain data formats<br>
to keep up with the FOSS4G counterparts. But
alas, they are doing more to<br>
lock in their customers with the ESRI centric data
specifications/formats<br>
and online user accounts which is leading to some
consternation, well maybe<br>
a revolt<br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://geonet.esri.com/groups/arcgispro/blog/2015/04/24/arcgis-pro-is-this-the-start-of-a-revolt-against-esri#comment-14969"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://geonet.esri.com/groups/arcgispro/blog/2015/04/24/arcgis-pro-is-this-the-start-of-a-revolt-against-esri#comment-14969</a>><br>
.<br>
<br>
While the foundation of my initial post (and even
this one) is a little ESRI<br>
bashing (even though that the organization that I
work for primarily uses it<br>
and is looking to sink further into it), and
pondering the more wide spread<br>
use of FOSS4G, what my real aim was to understand
if there was anyone<br>
looking to extend QGIS to include more "applied"
solutions for local<br>
government. I hate to think that replicating
exactly what commercial<br>
providers are doing is the right thing to do, but
I wonder even though QGIS<br>
has matured greatly over the past few years, and
there are now supported<br>
open stacks of FOSS4G applications like OpenGeo
and consulting firms who are<br>
providing support for QGIS, if there is something
missing to make QGIS an<br>
easier entry point for a GIS software solution for
local governments? I<br>
suppose if there are more individuals who are
willing to share map<br>
templates, customizations of QGIS, workflow
processes, etc and if these were<br>
aggregated in some manner, then perhaps it would
be a start. I suppose in<br>
the global use of QGIS, what does local government
mean and what does it do?<br>
Solutions might need to be sub-divided by country
or region.<br>
<br>
Well, just some more thoughts...<br>
<br>
Steve<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
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