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    <p>Hi,</p>
    <p>NAD27 does touch the northern part of South America but you are
      correct in saying that it does not extend in Brazil.  I wrote the
      comments when I was still trying to figure out where the maps were
      in the world.  I often get problems with NAD27 vs NAD83 grid in
      Canada as many maps have been printed with the errors in NAD27
      military grid reference system.  In those cases, error in much
      bigger than the standard 30 to 100 metres error so that was my
      working hypotheses.   People assume that adjoining maps use the
      same CRS and that is often not the case in remote areas.</p>
    <p> I was reprojecting the Google map image to the local CRS in
      order to figure out the distortion and not using the  WGS 84
      Pseudo Merc coordinates. It's important, like to say to know that
      there are differences between the web merc and the various  WGS 84
      realizations.  I would like to see the numbers out of curiosity if
      you have them. I often wonder why these projections were invented.<br>
    </p>
    <p>BTW, the problem was solved when we used the TPS transformation
      and not the linear transformation.  <br>
    </p>
    <p>Cheers,</p>
    <p>Nicolas<br>
    </p>
    <p>         <br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2018-05-18 3:52 PM, Nicolas Cadieux
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:F251D35C-16C4-4EA8-A093-F615AF503A3A@archeotec.ca">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      <div><br>
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      <div><br>
        Le 18 mai 2018 à 00:28, <<a href="mailto:listsen@0x906.com"
          moz-do-not-send="true">listsen@0x906.com</a>> <<a
          href="mailto:listsen@0x906.com" moz-do-not-send="true">listsen@0x906.com</a>>
        a écrit :<br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div>
          <p>I haven't been able to open the dataset but going through
            the discussion I would like to offer some assistance since I
            believe there are some misconceptions here:<br>
            <br>
            First, the data has nothing to do with the NAD27 / NAD83
            datum's since these are North American datum's and they
            don't apply I believe in South America. Moreover, the
            separation between NAD27 to NAD83 is about 100m. I think
            Carlos mention something like being 400m off.<br>
            <br>
            Another point of confusion is about the projection of Google
            Earth. Google is using a Web Mercator projection based on a
            perfect sphere. This has nothing to do with the UTM that has
            already incorporate the Earth Flattening values into the
            Northing and Easting equations.<br>
            <br>
            If I find some time tomorrow, I will come back and give the
            proper equations showing the difference between Google's
            projection and UTM.<br>
            <br>
            -0x906</p>
          <p><br>
          </p>
          <p>On 2018-05-17 19:53, Carlos Henrique Grohmann de Carvalho
            wrote:</p>
          <blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left:
            #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0"><!-- html ignored --><!-- head ignored --><!-- meta ignored -->
            <div dir="ltr">Thanks for the input Nicolas
              <div> </div>
              <div>These are official maps so the utm grid is ok. I
                figured that I was using a linear transformation, with
                the option to just create the world file, which works
                for control points at the corners (lat/long), since the
                boundaries of the map is defined by latitude/longitude.
                With UTM, this simple transformation won't work, but TPS
                will give the correct results.</div>
              <div> </div>
              <div>Carlos</div>
              <div> </div>
            </div>
            <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 7:28 PM,
                Nicolas Cadieux <span><<a
                    href="mailto:nicolas.cadieux@archeotec.ca"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">nicolas.cadieux@archeotec.ca</a>></span>
                wrote:<br>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0
                  .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
                  <div dir="auto">
                    <div> </div>
                    <div>Hi,</div>
                    <div>The utm grid is way off or we have the wrong
                      epsg code.  If you geofence using 2 points (linear
                      algo)  using a service like google earth, you will
                      see the distortion.  The long lat coordinate are
                      probably ok but I did not test them.</div>
                    <div> </div>
                    <div>You can either use the long lat or use more
                      points.  With 4 points and using the thin plate
                      spline, I got good results.</div>
                    <div>Nicolas</div>
                    <div>
                      <div class="h5">
                        <div><br>
                          Le 17 mai 2018 à 12:42, Carlos Henrique
                          Grohmann de Carvalho <<a
                            href="mailto:carlos.grohmann@gmail.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">carlos.grohmann@gmail.com</a>>
                          a écrit :<br>
                          <br>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em;
                          border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">
                          <div>
                            <div dir="ltr">Thanks Nicolas, but the
                              misalignment still persists. OTF is off,
                              project has same CRS as data (epsg 29192).
                              There is a ~400m difference in the N-S
                              direction.
                              <div> </div>
                              <div>Carlos</div>
                              <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, May 17,
                                  2018 at 1:28 PM, Nicolas Cadieux <span><<a
href="mailto:nicolas.cadieux@archeotec.ca" moz-do-not-send="true">nicolas.cadieux@archeotec.ca</a>></span>
                                  wrote:<br>
                                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                    style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex;
                                    border-left: 1px #ccc solid;
                                    padding-left: 1ex;">
                                    <div dir="auto">
                                      <div> </div>
                                      <div>Hi,</div>
                                      <div>Disable projection on the
                                        fly.  Make sure the project is
                                        in the same CRS as your maps.</div>
                                      <div>Nicolas</div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div
                                          class="m_5331241165982910871m_1909886288506383736h5">
                                          <div><br>
                                            Le 17 mai 2018 à 12:14,
                                            Carlos Henrique Grohmann de
                                            Carvalho <<a
                                              href="mailto:carlos.grohmann@gmail.com"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true">carlos.grohmann@gmail.com</a>>
                                            a écrit :<br>
                                            <br>
                                          </div>
                                          <blockquote type="cite"
                                            style="padding: 0 0.4em;
                                            border-left: #1010ff 2px
                                            solid; margin: 0">
                                            <div>
                                              <div dir="ltr"><span
                                                  style="font-size:
                                                  12.800000190734863px;">Hello
                                                  all</span>
                                                <div style="font-size:
                                                  12.800000190734863px;"> </div>
                                                <div style="font-size:
                                                  12.800000190734863px;">I
                                                  have two pngs of
                                                  topographic maps from
                                                  southeastern Brazil (a
                                                  zip file with images
                                                  and points is
                                                  available here: <a
                                                    href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/mexeh4be46pgsk6/images_georef.zip?dl=0"
                                                    target="_blank"
                                                    rel="noopener
                                                    noreferrer"
                                                    moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.dropbox.com/<wbr>s/mexeh4be46pgsk6/images_geore<wbr>f.zip?dl=0</a>)</div>
                                                <div style="font-size:
                                                  12.800000190734863px;"> </div>
                                                <div style="font-size:
                                                  12.800000190734863px;">I'm
                                                  trying to georeference
                                                  them, but with partial
                                                  success only. In this
                                                  image (<a
                                                    href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/37xxqp4fkwpdyqh/utm_error.png?dl=0"
                                                    target="_blank"
                                                    rel="noopener
                                                    noreferrer"
                                                    moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.dropbox.com/s/37x<wbr>xqp4fkwpdyqh/utm_error.png?dl=<wbr>0</a>)
                                                  you can see that the X
                                                  coordinate is fine,
                                                  but the Y coordinate
                                                  of the two maps won't
                                                  match.</div>
                                                <div style="font-size:
                                                  12.800000190734863px;"> </div>
                                                <div style="font-size:
                                                  12.800000190734863px;">Both
                                                  maps use South
                                                  American Datum 1969. I
                                                  selected points near
                                                  the edges, and used
                                                  the UTM values. </div>
                                                <div style="font-size:
                                                  12.800000190734863px;"> </div>
                                                <div style="font-size:
                                                  12.800000190734863px;">Interestingly,
                                                  if I use Lat/Long, and
                                                  place the points at
                                                  the corners, using
                                                  decimal degrees, the
                                                  maps align perfectly.</div>
                                                <div style="font-size:
                                                  12.800000190734863px;"> </div>
                                                <div style="font-size:
                                                  12.800000190734863px;"> </div>
                                                <div style="font-size:
                                                  12.800000190734863px;">Any
                                                  help is appreciated</div>
                                                <br clear="all">
                                                <div> </div>
                                                -- <br>
                                                <div
class="m_5331241165982910871m_1909886288506383736m_2947533340930390789gmail_signature">
                                                  <div dir="ltr">Prof.
                                                    Carlos Henrique
                                                    Grohmann<br>
                                                    Institute of Energy
                                                    and Environment -
                                                    Univ. of São Paulo,
                                                    Brazil
                                                    <div>- Digital
                                                      Terrain Analysis |
                                                      GIS | Remote
                                                      Sensing - </div>
                                                    <div> </div>
                                                    <div><a
                                                        href="http://carlosgrohmann.com/"
                                                        target="_blank"
                                                        rel="noopener
                                                        noreferrer"
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true">http://carlosgrohmann.com</a></div>
                                                    <div><a
                                                        style="font-size:
                                                        13px; color:
                                                        #1155cc;"
                                                        href="http://orcid.org/0000-0001-5073-5572"
                                                        target="_blank"
                                                        rel="noopener
                                                        noreferrer"
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true">http://orcid.org/0000-0001-507<wbr>3-5572</a><br>
                                                      <div>________________<br>
                                                        Can't stop the
                                                        signal.</div>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                          </blockquote>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                      <blockquote type="cite"
                                        style="padding: 0 0.4em;
                                        border-left: #1010ff 2px solid;
                                        margin: 0">
                                        <div><span>______________________________<wbr>_________________</span><br>
                                          <span>Qgis-user mailing list</span><br>
                                          <span><a
                                              href="mailto:Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true">Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org</a></span><br>
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                                    </div>
                                  </blockquote>
                                </div>
                                <br>
                                <br clear="all">
                                <div> </div>
                                -- <br>
                                <div
                                  class="m_5331241165982910871m_1909886288506383736gmail_signature">
                                  <div dir="ltr">Prof. Carlos Henrique
                                    Grohmann<br>
                                    Institute of Energy and Environment
                                    - Univ. of São Paulo, Brazil
                                    <div>- Digital Terrain Analysis |
                                      GIS | Remote Sensing - </div>
                                    <div> </div>
                                    <div><a
                                        href="http://carlosgrohmann.com/"
                                        target="_blank" rel="noopener
                                        noreferrer"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">http://carlosgrohmann.com</a></div>
                                    <div><a style="font-size: 13px;
                                        color: #1155cc;"
                                        href="http://orcid.org/0000-0001-5073-5572"
                                        target="_blank" rel="noopener
                                        noreferrer"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">http://orcid.org/0000-0001-507<wbr>3-5572</a><br>
                                      <div>________________<br>
                                        Can't stop the signal.</div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
              <br>
              <br clear="all">
              <div> </div>
              -- <br>
              <div class="gmail_signature">
                <div dir="ltr">Prof. Carlos Henrique Grohmann<br>
                  Institute of Energy and Environment - Univ. of São
                  Paulo, Brazil
                  <div>- Digital Terrain Analysis | GIS | Remote Sensing
                    - </div>
                  <div> </div>
                  <div><a href="http://carlosgrohmann.com/"
                      target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">http://carlosgrohmann.com</a></div>
                  <div><a style="font-size: 13px; color: #1155cc;"
                      href="http://orcid.org/0000-0001-5073-5572"
                      target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">http://orcid.org/0000-0001-5073-5572</a><br>
                    <div>________________<br>
                      Can't stop the signal.</div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <br>
            <div class="pre" style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-family:
              monospace">_______________________________________________<br>
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          </blockquote>
          <p><br>
          </p>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
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