<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi,</div><div>Let me also try to answer some of the questions<br></div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2018-06-09 8:06 GMT+02:00 Springfield Harrison <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:stellargps@gmail.com" target="_blank">stellargps@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <div class="gmail-m_1726615129210678063moz-cite-prefix">Hello Responders,<br>
      <br>
      Thanks very much for your suggestions and comments.  Very helpful.<br>
      <br>
      I must say though that the last few comments have again
      underscored my nervousness about changing anything that isn't
      completely broken.<br>
      <br>
      Firstly, why are there two installation processes and what is the
      purpose of each?  This implies making a choice after learning
      about the benefits and disadvantages of each.  What are the
      criteria for choosing one over the other?  How long is the process
      of understanding the options?<br>
      <br></div></div></blockquote><div>There are different installation processes because there are different GIS users, with different needs:</div><div>- the standalone installer provides the version of QGIS you want with its dependency. So it should be enough.</div><div>- QGIS being part of a large ecosystem of tools, it can be extended with other software/libraries. The osgeo4w installer is a kind of open and free market for those libraries, avoiding you browse the Internet to separately download each package. So other than installing QGIS, you can install some other softwares, either to couple with QGIS or just run them alongside. Not all of us need that but some do.</div><div><br></div><div>You can install different versions of the standalone installer, placing each QGIS version under something like C:\Program Files\QGIS 2.10 and 
C:\Program Files\QGIS 2.18

(sorry if the paths are not correct because I do not check with an install beforehand, but I guess you get the idea - each version has its folder). They'll work smoothly in parallel in my experience. Given that those are 2.x releases, they share some items such as your plugin folder. This is neither a big issue. The only downside I can see is if you update a plugin that is no longer compatible with the elder version but it's neither unsolvable.</div><div><br></div><div>To avoid you downloading each standalone installer and go through each install process, here comes the handy osgeo4w: it allows you to again easily pick those versions in one place (actually provides only most recent versions) and places the installation folders under dedicated sub folders in C:\osgeo4w\...\... folder. One installer and folder to rule them all. (btw the issue with plugins is the same here)<br></div><div><br></div><div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div class="gmail-m_1726615129210678063moz-cite-prefix">
      Secondly, there seems to be no great consensus over the
      possibility (or not) of conflicts between simultaneous
      installations.  Again, this makes me nervous.<br>
      <br></div></div></blockquote><div>Sorry to read that. As said I'm not aware of issues related to simultaneous installations so I'd be interested in feedback on the possible conflicts that were evocated: what kind of issues are they? Some examples?</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div class="gmail-m_1726615129210678063moz-cite-prefix">
      Thirdly, why are some operators running two or three simultaneous
      installations?  Does this mean that the latest version is not
      adequate for some tasks?<br>
      <br></div></div></blockquote><div>Like any software QGIS can have bugs. Because of its 4-months release rythm and to ensure that users and corporate users have the best experience with QGIS, they opted to release LTR, that is a version maintained at least one year. So the longer, the stabler given that each months a new update with bug fixes is released. This is great for most of the users.</div><div>The counterparty of this is that there's no new features added, so you can not use that amazing new feature (eg 3D, new algorithm, multi canvas display, integrated help button, new layout...) you read about few days ago. Damn!! Ooh.. Actually you can: just need to install next to your current release the one you read about.</div><div><br></div><div>But it's not only about using new released features. It's also about testing bug fixes  or new features before they land in a published version. For example, QGIS 3.2 should be released in a couple of weeks and is currently in its bug hunting process. There's then a need for users to run the dev version to check whether the new feature works as expected, does not break any other function that would have worked either in the LTR or the current release (hence 3 versions n my case for example).</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I'm not sure I read anything about Windows 7 not being supported by QGIS but fact is that your QGIS version is too old and for the issues you could encounter, there won't be fixes to them but there's a risk that even people don't remember how to help you as things have changed a lot meanwhile. Depending on the usage you have, you'll at some point need to upgrade and, if I may, don't migrate to 3.0 from your 2.10. Risky imho, the internals have changed a lot. Better target 2.18 as end version (it'll be maintained until january 2019 according to <a href="https://qgis.org/en/site/getinvolved/development/roadmap.html#release-schedule">https://qgis.org/en/site/getinvolved/development/roadmap.html#release-schedule</a> which does not mean you should stop using it at that time ). I'd also advise you to backup your project files before opening any in a recent version as older QGIS versions can't reliably read files saved. But all this paragraph requires you to be confident on the upgrade beforehand... ;)<br></div><div><br></div><div>Hope that I'd helped to clarify some of your concerns and brought you back on the zen and optimistic road,</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Harrissou<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div class="gmail-m_1726615129210678063moz-cite-prefix">
      All these things give me pause and discourage me from wading in to
      something that may have a lengthy learning curve and an
      unpredictable outcome.  In this case, the devil you know
      definitely seems to be a worthy rule of thumb.  At least, until it
      fails utterly.<br>
      <br>
      In that regard, I discovered that at some point I had installed
      2.8.1 and, remarkably, it would load my ostensibly corrupt
      configuration file.  I appear to be back in business.<br>
      <br>
      However, this version still bogs down upon loading the various
      layers but does not fail after the delay.  There are about 100
      layers, mostly vector.<br>
      <br>
      Anyway, not sure if this is particularly helpful but is my current
      thinking on the upgrading process.<br>
      <br>
      Thank you all again for your assistance…<br>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail-m_1726615129210678063moz-signature">Cheers . . . . . Spring Harrison<br>
        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
      </div><div><div class="gmail-h5">
      On 08-Jun-2018 06:25, DelazJ wrote:<br>
    </div></div></div>
    <blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="gmail-h5">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div>Hi,</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Years that I'm using the osgeo4w installer (advanced
          install) with three concurrent releases  minimum (ltr, current
          release, dev, and sometimes ltr-dev) and I can't recall on any
          issue I got due to this situation.</div>
        <div>And afaics there's nothing to be particularly careful of,
          it's just about click click click process and all got
          installed in the c:\osgeo4w64 folder.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Just wanted to share my experience.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Regards,</div>
        <div>Harrissou<br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">2018-06-08 13:49 GMT+02:00 Philip
          Barlow <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:philipb@pembrokeshirecoast.org.uk" target="_blank">philipb@pembrokeshirecoast.<wbr>org.uk</a>></span>:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
            <div bgcolor="white" lang="EN-GB">
              <div class="gmail-m_1726615129210678063m_5968697055809130997WordSection1">
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">AFAIK
                    if you install QGIS with the standalone installer
                    that just puts the application and everything it
                    needs into a folder in program files. You may
                    encounter issues if you installed multiple versions
                    with the osgeo4w installer if you aren’t careful.
                  </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
                <div>
                  <div style="border-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext" lang="EN-US"> Qgis-user [mailto:<a href="mailto:qgis-user-bounces@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">qgis-user-bounces@list<wbr>s.osgeo.org</a>]
                        <b>On Behalf Of </b>Patrick Dunford<br>
                        <b>Sent:</b> 08 June 2018 11:01</span></p>
                    <div>
                      <div class="gmail-m_1726615129210678063h5"><br>
                        <b>To:</b> qgis-user ML<br>
                        <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Qgis-user] Unable to load
                        project</div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <div class="gmail-m_1726615129210678063h5">
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                    <p>That may be the case for the application.
                      However, depending on the installation, shared
                      libraries may be overwritten when a new
                      installation is carried out and cause older
                      software versions to stop working.</p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">On 08/06/18 20:11, Philip
                        Barlow wrote:</p>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">I
                          am happily running 2.18.20, 3.0.3 and 3.1
                          (nightly builds) side by side on Windows 10.
                          2.x and 3.x store their user settings and
                          plugins in different locations so there are no
                          conflicts.</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Phil</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
                      <div>
                        <div style="border-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext" lang="EN-US"> Qgis-user [<a href="mailto:qgis-user-bounces@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">mailto:qgis-user-bounces@list<wbr>s.osgeo.org</a>]
                              <b>On Behalf Of </b>Patrick Dunford<br>
                              <b>Sent:</b> 08 June 2018 05:02<br>
                              <b>To:</b> qgis-user ML<br>
                              <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Qgis-user] Unable to
                              load project</span></p>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      <p>The Windows version of Qgis allows you to run
                        multiple versions on your computer side by side.
                        I personally haven't used the Windows version
                        for several years so I can't be sure if you will
                        have any issues running 3.0 alongside your
                        current version. I run many of the editions I
                        have in virtual machines. If your PC has 8 GB or
                        more of memory, or if you have access to another
                        computer that can run Linux, then you can try it
                        out in a Linux virtual machine or physical
                        computer environment without disturbing your
                        current installation.</p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">On 08/06/18 07:38,
                          Springfield Harrison wrote:</p>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
                        <p>hello Patrick, thanks for your ideas. I will
                          try the no plugins option.</p>
                        <p>The program will run with no project loaded
                          and it will run older project files but has
                          problems with newer ones for the same project.</p>
                        <p>I can load an older project file and then add
                          newer layers to it and reconfigure them, Etc.
                          This is very tedious but will amount to a
                          recovery. It is better than starting from
                          scratch for sure. But will the same problem
                          reoccur?</p>
                        <p>I have contemplated migrating to version 3
                          but I'm always leery of upgrades of anything
                          as they often bring problems with them. In
                          this list I notice many references to
                          installation issues and things not running.
                          2.10 is a devil I know.</p>
                        <p>can I expect any difficulties installing 3.0
                          +?</p>
                        <p>Cheers . . . . .   Spring<br>
                          Samsung Tab 4</p>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">On Jun 7, 2018 1:30 AM,
                            "Patrick Dunford" <<a href="mailto:enzedrailmaps@gmail.com" target="_blank">enzedrailmaps@gmail.com</a>>
                            wrote:</p>
                          <div>
                            <p>Thre are a number of troubleshooting
                              steps to try out</p>
                            <p>1. Start up qgis using the -noplugins
                              switch or remove all installed plugins or
                              test removing one at a time.</p>
                            <p>2. Backup the config file and start with
                              a new empty config.</p>
                            <p>Qgis 2.10 is well out of support, is
                              there any reason you can't migrate to 3.0?</p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">On 07/06/18 18:28,
                                Springfield Harrison wrote:</p>
                            </div>
                            <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
                              <p>hello Phil,</p>
                              <p>I did open the project file in Word,
                                2033 pages, and found 13 instances
                                referring to the dxf file. Hard to say
                                if anything was wrong there, nothing
                                obvious. At least to me. Some other
                                research I did indicates that maybe
                                there is an authentication problem, not
                                sure just what that boils down to.</p>
                              <p>I don't think the dxf file is the
                                problem. I renamed it and bypassed it on
                                the startup routine which the program
                                accepted but it still seized up with a
                                spinning cursor. Some things still
                                function, such as modifying the
                                properties of a layer , Etc. But the
                                screen is blank and nothing can be
                                saved.</p>
                              <p>For some time I have noticed that
                                loading a project file bogs down for a
                                while and then would resume to
                                completion. Now it bogs down and blows
                                up. The key message seems to be unknown
                                exception.</p>
                              <p>Some older project files do load
                                successfully however...</p>
                              <p>Cheers . . . . .   Spring<br>
                                Samsung Tab 4</p>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal">On Jun 6, 2018
                                  11:15 PM, "Phil Wyatt" <<a href="mailto:phil@wyatt-family.com" target="_blank">phil@wyatt-family.com</a>>
                                  wrote:</p>
                                <div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-AU">Can you open a copy
                                        of the previous project file in
                                        something like notepad and see
                                        if anything obvious can be fixed
                                        and or removed in relation to
                                        the DXF layer?</span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-AU"> </span></p>
                                    <div>
                                      <div style="border-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext" lang="EN-US"> Qgis-user
                                            [mailto:<a href="mailto:qgis-user-bounces@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">qgis-user-bounces@list<wbr>s.osgeo.org</a>]
                                            <b>On Behalf Of </b>Springfield
                                            Harrison<br>
                                            <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 7
                                            June 2018 1:36 PM<br>
                                            <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org</a>
                                            List<br>
                                            <b>Subject:</b> [Qgis-user]
                                            Unable to load project</span></p>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"> </span></p>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">Hello All,<br>
                                          <br>
                                          Bad News.  I am unable to load
                                          a project that normally works
                                          with no problems:</span></p>
                                      <ol start="1" type="1">
                                        <li class="MsoNormal">
                                          <span lang="EN-AU">QGIS
                                            2.10.1, Windows 7.</span></li>
                                        <li class="MsoNormal">
                                          <span lang="EN-AU">Project
                                            starts to load, loads many
                                            layers . . .</span></li>
                                        <li class="MsoNormal">
                                          <span lang="EN-AU">halts
                                            loading "point Entity", a
                                            DXF file</span></li>
                                        <li class="MsoNormal">
                                          <span lang="EN-AU">the DXF
                                            file was renamed to trigger
                                            the Handle Bad Layers
                                            service</span></li>
                                        <li class="MsoNormal">
                                          <span lang="EN-AU">this was
                                            bypassed but project loading
                                            still fails to complete,
                                            cursor spinner on constantly</span></li>
                                        <li class="MsoNormal">
                                          <span lang="EN-AU">exiting
                                            with Save triggers "Unknown
                                            Exception"</span></li>
                                        <li class="MsoNormal">
                                          <span lang="EN-AU">the project
                                            file is trashed to 0kb</span></li>
                                        <li class="MsoNormal">
                                          <span lang="EN-AU">Exiting
                                            without Save is OK but no
                                            project can be loaded</span></li>
                                        <li class="MsoNormal">
                                          <span lang="EN-AU">Restoring
                                            previous project file
                                            versions yields the same
                                            results</span></li>
                                        <li class="MsoNormal">
                                          <span lang="EN-AU">Loading
                                            some other projects works
                                            but may have cursor spinner</span></li>
                                      </ol>
                                      <p><span lang="EN-AU">Any ideas
                                          what is going on here?  I have
                                          rebooted the computer.</span></p>
                                      <p><span lang="EN-AU">Thanks very
                                          much . . . .</span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"> </span></p>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">Cheers . . . .
                                            . Springfield Harrison</span></p>
                                      </div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"> </span></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"> </span></p>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                              </p>
                              <pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________</pre>
                              <pre>Qgis-user mailing list</pre>
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                            </blockquote>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                          </div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                            ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
                            Qgis-user mailing list<br>
                            <a href="mailto:Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
                            List info: <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user" target="_blank">
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                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      <p>Mae'r Awdurdod yn hapus i gyfathrebu yn Gymraeg
                        neu yn Saesneg</p>
                      <p>The Authority is happy to communicate in Welsh
                        or English</p>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">******************************<wbr>******************************<wbr>***********
                        </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Website <a href="http://www.pembrokeshirecoast.org.uk" target="_blank">www.pembrokeshirecoast.org.uk</a></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Follow us on <a href="http://twitter.com/PembsCoast" target="_blank">Twitter</a>
                        </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Join us on <a href="http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=26330984774&ref=ts" target="_blank">
                            Facebook</a></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Watch us on <a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/pcnpa2008#p/u/0/Tw8Udou0p5k" target="_blank">
                            Youtube </a></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Look at us on <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/pembrokeshirecoast/" target="_blank">
                            Flickr</a></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">This email and any attached
                          files should only be read <span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
                            by</span> those persons to whom<br>
                          they are addressed and be used by them only
                          for their intended purpose.<br>
                          If you are not the intended recipient please
                          destroy all copies and inform the<br>
                          sender by return email.<br>
                          <br>
                          Please note that the contents of this email
                          may be subject to public disclosure <br>
                          under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and
                          therefore the confidentiality of <br>
                          this message and any reply cannot be
                          guaranteed.</p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                          For further information on the PCNPA please
                          visit our website at <a href="http://www.pembrokeshirecoast.org.uk" target="_blank">
                            www.pembrokeshirecoast.org.uk</a></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                          Please consider the environment before
                          printing this email.<br>
                          <br>
                          Dim ond y personau hynny yr anfonwyd yr e-bost
                          hwn atynt ac unrhyw ffeiliau sydd <br>
                          ynghlwm ddylid eu darllen, a dim ond hwy
                          ddylid eu defnyddio at y diben y bwriadwyd
                          hwy.
                          <br>
                          Os nad y chi yw'r person y bwriadwyd eu derbyn
                          a fyddech gystal <span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
                            �</span> dinistrio pob copi a rhoi <br>
                          gwybod i'r anfonwr gyda throad yr e-bost.<br>
                          <br>
                          Noder os gwelwch yn dda y gall cynnwys yr
                          e-bost hwn orfod cael ei ddatgelu i'r cyhoedd
                          o
                          <br>
                          dan Deddf Rhyddid Gwybodaeth 2000 ac felly ni
                          ellir gwarantu cyfrinachedd y neges hon
                          <br>
                          nac unrhyw ateb. <br>
                          <br>
                          Am ragor o wybodaeth am APCAP ymwelwch <span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
                            �</span>'n gwefan ar <a href="http://www.arfordirpenfro.org.uk" target="_blank">www.arfordirpenfro.org.uk</a>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          Ystyrier yr amgylchedd cyn argraffu'r e-bost
                          hwn os gwelwch yn dda.</p>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <br>
            ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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          </blockquote>
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