<html><head></head><body><div class="ydp32ac5e26yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><div></div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">This issue has been solved. Trying to estimate the scale by taking measurements on the paper maps failed despite every advantage that should have maximized the precision of the measurements. A distance measured north-south yielded a different scale than a distance measured east-west. Averages of ten of each yielded different scales in these two orientations. The only thing I can think of that would produce that result is that the image was distorted differently in height than it was in width.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">But the whole issue was resolved when Kinkos agreed to examine the process and reprint the job. After one test panel, they told me they figured out what had happened (although they didn't tell me what that was). They reprinted the big panel and one small parcel map, and they line up perfectly just as I had planned. They are in the process of reprinting the rest of the panels at no cost to me. For long-story reasons I'm not inclined to share, I didn't think they would do that. The rest of the work going forward is going to be SO much simpler because of that. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Thank you all for your help!</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">- John A.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"> </div></div><div id="ydp278f9017yahoo_quoted_3400414533" class="ydp278f9017yahoo_quoted"><div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;"><div><br></div>
<div><div id="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280"><div>
<p><font face="Arial">John,</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">Is it possible to ask Kinkos what scale they
printed the base maps? They don't have to actually reprint the
maps, just go through the motions. Open the PDF and look at the
print options. As Andreas points out, the default is often "Fit"
and there will be a "zoom" or "scale" percent displayed in the
application (I use Foxit, and Adobe and both show this). The
page size parcel maps will have to be printed at this scale. If
they can guarantee that the print scale was 100%, then I would
assume some other export discrepancy.</font><br clear="none">
</p>
<div class="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280moz-signature">
David<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280moz-cite-prefix">On 5/27/2021 4:15 AM, Andreas Neumann
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
</blockquote></div><div><p>Hi John,</p>
<p>No - the PDF export does not distort the scale. But the
printing of the PDF file might.</p>
<p>It is absolutely important that - when printing the PDF - the
setting "Actual size" or "Custom Scale at 100%" is used. All
other options will change the scale.</p>
<p>As far as I know, the default option when printing is "Fit",
which will often shrink the content by some percentage - because
some often "invisible" or white background might be present in
the file that extends right to the edge of the page format.
Acrobat then thinks that the content goes beyond the "printable
area" of the printer and will scale down the whole file.</p>
<p>Hope that clarifies this potential pit-fall when printing PDF
files. It might well be a different issue than the one I
describe, but this is a very common source of error that I know.</p>
<p>Andreas</p>
<p id="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280reply-intro">On 2021-05-27 10:02, John Antkowiak wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding:0 0.4em;border-left:#1010ff 2px solid;margin:0;">
<div id="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280replybody1">
<div>
<div class="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280v1ydpe027f2b4yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">
<div> </div>
<div dir="ltr">Hi, Jochen. Your suggestion sounds do-able;
I'll play around with it and see if I can sort it out.
I've got some digital calipers around here somewhere :) </div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">What I'm hearing is that the process of
converting both the base map (and yes, I did create it
in QGIS) and the parcel maps into PDF will distort the
scale. (And that a print shop might compound the problem
by manually fitting the source file to the printable
area. Yes?) A question then is why didn't the PDF
conversion distort them all the same way, to the same
degree? The base maps are done now and I couldn't afford
to do them again no matter what, so they are what they
are. Going forward, is there an export option in Print
Layout that will not distort the scale of the parcel
maps?</div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">I am so relieved that someone has an
explanation for this!</div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">- John A.</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div class="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280v1ydpdc397e2yahoo_quoted" id="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280v1ydpdc397e2yahoo_quoted_2213966022">
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<div>----- Forwarded Message -----</div>
<div><strong>From:</strong> <a shape="rect" class="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:j.huber@post-ist-da.de" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">j.huber@post-ist-da.de</a>
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<div><strong>To:</strong> <a shape="rect" class="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">"qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org"</a>
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<div><strong>Sent:</strong> Thursday, May 27, 2021,
03:33:12 AM EDT</div>
<div><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [Qgis-user] Did scale
change outputting to PDF?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div id="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280v1ydpdc397e2yiv9320220163">
<div>
<div class="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280v1ydpdc397e2yiv9320220163moz-cite-prefix">Hi
John,</div>
<div class="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280v1ydpdc397e2yiv9320220163moz-cite-prefix"> </div>
<div class="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280v1ydpdc397e2yiv9320220163moz-cite-prefix">as
I understand it, you created the base map in
QGIS. If you use the measure tool in QGIS to get
the distance between two distinct features in
the map (e.g. road intersections) and then
measure the same distance on the printed base
map with a ruler, it should be possible to
calculate the scale. Maybe use two distances,
one aligned more or less horizontally and one
vertically, to check if the scaling is
proportional.</div>
<div class="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280v1ydpdc397e2yiv9320220163moz-cite-prefix"> </div>
<div class="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280v1ydpdc397e2yiv9320220163moz-cite-prefix">As
Andreas pointed out, it is probably a problem
with the settings when the PDF was printed. In
my experience it is a good idea to go to print
shops usually working for architects and
engineers since they are familiar with the
importance of scaling (for advertising etc. it
is more important that the whole content is
printed, so that scaling might be used to fit
the output to the printable area without
potential cropping).</div>
<div class="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280v1ydpdc397e2yiv9320220163moz-cite-prefix">You
can print directly to a plotter in QGIS if you
have access to the device, avoiding the PDF
detour.</div>
<div class="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280v1ydpdc397e2yiv9320220163moz-cite-prefix"> </div>
<div class="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280v1ydpdc397e2yiv9320220163moz-cite-prefix">EPSG
2264 should be fine. Units should be US feet.</div>
<div class="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280v1ydpdc397e2yiv9320220163moz-cite-prefix"> </div>
<div class="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280v1ydpdc397e2yiv9320220163moz-cite-prefix">Regards<br clear="none">
Jochen</div>
<div class="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280v1ydpdc397e2yiv9320220163moz-cite-prefix"> </div>
<div class="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280v1ydpdc397e2yiv9320220163moz-cite-prefix"> </div>
<div class="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280v1ydpdc397e2yiv9320220163moz-cite-prefix">Am
27.05.21 um 07:15 schrieb John Antkowiak:</div>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding:0 0.4em;border-left:#1010ff 2px solid;margin:0;">
<div class="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280v1ydpdc397e2yiv9320220163yqt8754284081" id="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280v1ydpdc397e2yiv9320220163yqt27568">
<div class="ydp278f9017yiv6909786280v1ydpdc397e2yiv9320220163yahoo-style-wrap">
<div dir="ltr">Hi. This plan was too simple
to fail - but it failed. The charity whose
project this is needed a large (that is...
massive) paper wall map on which to plot
and rethink its delivery driver
assignments. Both drivers and delivery
addresses are subject to change from week
to week but it's not a pizza delivery;
this is a regular run to supply people in
a bad way. So the plan was to print the
base map (roads and road names and county
boundaries only) and then print 8.5 x 11
address maps with parcel data and orthos.
That way, the base maps don't change but
the physical parcel layer is flexible. (On
top of that is a third paper layer
indicating which drivers go where so
someone can stand back and take in the
whole picture graphically. Not a
cutting-edge state of the digital art
solution, but not everyone is cut out for
that. It is what it is.) In order for this
to work, the parcel maps have to be the
same scale as the base map. Which they
were... in QGIS.</div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">We have to convert all the
maps to PDF to print them, and we had to
send the base map PDFs to FedEx/Kinkos to
print the 9 map grid panels at 42" by 62"
each. </div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">When we got the big base maps
up on the wall, we discovered the scale
did not match the 8.5" x 11" parcel maps
output to PDF and printed from home. It's
not off by a lot, but it's enough to be
painfully obvious from a single standard
size sheet of paper. I don't know how to
reverse engineer the big map scale
precisely enough to enter a new scale
number in the QGIS Print Layout. I didn't
foresee it because this never would've
been a conceivable scenario at the
engineering firm where I picked up my
meager GIS skills. (ArcMap sent a map
directly to the plotter without interim
steps.) There was no scale bar on the map.
It shouldn't have been needed for this.</div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">Did something happen to the
map scale when QGIS output the map to PDF?
Could the size of the image on the pdf
page have been adjusted manually or
otherwise when being sent to a plotter
with 42" paper? Could the image have been
distorted horizontally differently from
vertically? For the life of me, I cannot
trial-and-error guess at a scale to enter.
I've gone through dozens of new 8.5" x 11"
test maps trying to guess the correct
scale.</div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">Any ideas? </div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">Thank you all -</div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">John A.</div>
</div>
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