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<p>Richard, it seems from your last response that you hadn't read
Nick's email. Maybe you are not subscribed to
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:seasonofdocs@lists.osgeo.org">seasonofdocs@lists.osgeo.org</a></p>
<p>Nick, you also might be able to help quantify how much new
material needs to be created, and where to source the new material
from?</p>
<p>I'll let the QGIS community reply about how to best communicate
with them. (I've heard others ask about the best way to
communicate with QGIS doc team, so I'm also interested in the
answer.)<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 21/4/19 8:23 pm, Nick Bearman wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CANsUTfnYjte+JnUyY5Eiij8_W=FbX39LnTATgwr-V8x9comFWw@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Cameron and everyone,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think your and Andrew's list is fairly comprehensive.
I would agree the documentation is good, but I also find
it hard to navigate. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would add that a fair chunk of the tasks that need to
be done are the new features (brought in at different
versions) which need to be included. There is probably a
fair chunk of this that material does exist for (e.g. a
blog post on a new feature) that could just be copied over
and tidied up (with ok of the original author) into QGIS
documentation. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think we probably should have reached out to the QGIS
community a bit more, but I'm not very clear on how to do
that! (Cameron, did you get any replies from the QGIS
Community list)? Probably I have just not looked enough to
find the right methods to contact them. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have had interaction with Harrissou Sant-anna <a
href="https://github.com/DelazJ" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/DelazJ</a> on
GitHub and they seem quite active, and Alessandro Pasotti
<a href="https://github.com/elpaso" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/elpaso</a> who
has commented on a few of my PRs. However I can't work how
how to message them through GitHub! Perhaps they are on
the qgis-community-team list?!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please do ask questions, make suggestions etc. !</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best wishes,</div>
<div>Nick.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, 21 Apr 2019 at 05:10,
Andrew Jeffrey <<a href="mailto:aljeffrey83@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">aljeffrey83@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Cameron,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Here is my suggestions for QGIS tasks, nothing new
from conversations we have had in the past. Like i've
said before my biggest worry is offending someone on
the documentation team, I think QGIS does a great job
at documentation these are just items ove noticed from
my involvement in the Australian user group.</div>
<div>
<ul>
<li>Get assistance from writers to create a simple,
and clear "quickstart". <i>WHY? Because 11 of the
26 threads started in 2019 on the Australian
user group are related to getting started,
loading and exporting data. People indicate that
they have referred to the documentation but are
still lost.</i></li>
<li>Review structure of current documentation,
provide clear separation of tasks. <i>WHY?
Because there is a "Getting started" section in
the user manual and also a separate
documentation section on "Getting started with
GIS" - Which route does a new user take? And is
the best place for Getting started material to
be nested in other material? I'm not sure but a
writer could assist us with the best practice
structure?</i></li>
<li>Writers to review the language and readability
of the QGIS "Step by Step contribution" (This is
documentation for making documentation
contributions). - <a
href="https://docs.qgis.org/3.4/en/docs/documentation_guidelines/first_contribution.html"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://docs.qgis.org/3.4/en/docs/documentation_guidelines/first_contribution.html</a>
- <i>WHY? This guide walks a user through making
a contirbution to the QGIS documentation. I
don't believe the method for maintaining
documentation will change, so lets make this
section so accurate and clear that anyone can
pick it up.</i><br>
</li>
<li>Get documentation mentors (someone alread
familiar with documenting) to assist want to be
documenters knock off some of the doc items marked
as "easy". </li>
</ul>
<div>For the most part I think the QGIS documentation
is good and quiet in-depth, just at times a
difficult to navigate and find content.</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Happy for people to question me on these, or have a
discussion about QGIS items you would find valuable.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank</div>
<div>Andrew</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Apr 21, 2019 at
8:22 AM Cameron Shorter <<a
href="mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">cameron.shorter@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Hi folks, <br>
</p>
<p>I'm struggling to compile QGIS writing tasks for
SeasonOfDocs which are as compelling as Jo and Maria
have put together for GeoNetwork:</p>
<p><a
href="https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Season_of_Docs_Ideas_2019#GeoNetwork"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Season_of_Docs_Ideas_2019#GeoNetwork</a></p>
<p> I'm hoping that those of you who have used QGIS docs
can list strengths and then be fully transparent about
its weaknesses. If we don't have much of a problem,
something requiring senior technical writer expertise,
then why would Google want to help us? There will be
plenty of worthy projects for Google to select from.</p>
<p>We have 3 days (till 23 April) to respond. Could you
please help by brainstorming ideas in this email
thread. I'll commit to compiling them into <a
href="https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Season_of_Docs_Ideas_2019#QGIS"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Season_of_Docs_Ideas_2019#QGIS</a>
. (Although feel free to update it yourself.)<br>
</p>
<p>Ideas I'm considering based on the conversations so
far:</p>
<p>* There appears to be a high technical barrier to
entry which makes it hard for new users to engage with
improving QGIS docs. Is this so? What writing tasks
could we put in place to address this?<br>
</p>
<p>* OSGeoLive has successfully attracted authors from ~
50 projects to write Quickstarts and Project Overviews
based on clear templates and writing guides. Would a
template/writing guide be useful for QGIS? For what
doc types? Workshops? Tutorials? (I'm suspecting these
to be in the sweet spot for us, as they could be
rolled out through OSGeoLive to other projects).<br>
</p>
<p>* "<i>Training materials are generally tailored to a
customer, their technical use case, using sample
maps from the customer's location in the world. This
makes it difficult to develop consolidated material
that works for everyone". </i>However<i>, "there's
a really big need for standard training materials-
and also if possible the kind of training materials
that could be used for schools, to try to break the
monopoly that certain proprietary companies have on
that area."</i> How can we define this task more
clearly?</p>
<p>* The GeoNetwork team have provided an honest
statement about the quality and completeness of their
documentation. Does QGIS documentation have similar
limitations? (My initial skim over docs suggest that
the quality might be better, but I could be wrong.)</p>
<p>* QGIS has had a major feature update from 2.18 to
3.4.x. I suspect we should talk about this? What
documentation still needs to be updated or improved as
a consequence?</p>
<p>* With a rapidly innovating product like QGIS, with
large documentation base, we could be running into
challenges around maintenance and sustainability. Do
you consider this a problem? If so, can you provide
examples we can reference? Do you have suggestions on
writing tasks to address this?<br>
</p>
<p>* Matteo mentions an issue tracker with over 400
writing tasks in it. How do we resource the management
of these issues? We likely won't be allocated a <b>senior</b>
writer to action such a list (Google's target for this
initiative), but we might get a junior writer. This
might not be supported until future Google writing
initiatives, based on our identified need for such a
role.</p>
<p> * I'm aware that there are multiple QGIS training
courses on the web, some which are free and open.
Could you identify those that a tech writer should
consider. You can list in the "Resources:" list in <a
href="https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Season_of_Docs_Ideas_2019#QGIS"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Season_of_Docs_Ideas_2019#QGIS</a>
. I notice that much of the training on the web is
still based on version 2.18. Should we suggest effort
be dedicated to updating them to 3.4?<br>
</p>
<p>----</p>
<p>Please respond to this email with your ideas. I'll
really appreciate the help.</p>
<p>What follows are the emails and ideas I've based the
above thoughts upon.</p>
<p>Warm regards, Cameron</p>
<p>----<br>
</p>
<ul style="list-style-type:disc;margin:0.3em 0px 0px
1.6em;padding:0px;color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">
<br
class="gmail-m_-3061626792538241329gmail-m_-5613301676391199340gmail-m_1594467163975333744gmail-m_-4990625431597427942Apple-interchange-newline">
</ul>
<p>Matteo's suggestions:</p>
<ul style="list-style-type:disc;margin:0.3em 0px 0px
1.6em;padding:0px;color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">
<li style="margin-bottom:0.1em">Pyqgis cookbook code
snipped are now automatically tested, meaning that
every new contribution will be rock solid and code
snippets can be taken "as they are" and pasted in
QGIS</li>
<li style="margin-bottom:0.1em">Change the doc style
to the more readable Read-The-Docs vanilla theme
(fully supported by sphinx). A live example here<span> </span><a
rel="nofollow"
class="gmail-m_-3061626792538241329gmail-m_-5613301676391199340gmail-m_1594467163975333744gmail-m_-4990625431597427942external
gmail-m_-3061626792538241329gmail-m_-5613301676391199340gmail-m_1594467163975333744gmail-m_-4990625431597427942free"
href="https://qgis.org/test/en/"
style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(102,51,102);background-color:initial;padding-right:13px"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://qgis.org/test/en/</a>.</li>
<li style="margin-bottom:0.1em">Besides from contents,
writing documentation isn't easy because of the
complex framework (sphinx, git, github, etc).
Improving the WYSIWYG github editor would be a great
enhancement</li>
<li style="margin-bottom:0.1em">Cleaning the issue
tracker in github (> 400 issue now) in many
different ways: verifying issues, closing
duplicates, make order in the labels, etc</li>
</ul>
<div
class="gmail-m_-3061626792538241329gmail-m_-5613301676391199340gmail-m_1594467163975333744gmail-m_-4990625431597427942moz-cite-prefix">On
12/4/19 2:46 pm, Andrew Jeffrey wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I agree with Jo's respone to Camerons
question. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Training materials are generally tailored to a
type of customer and I this believe makes it
difficult to develop consolidated material that
works for everyone. The similarities I do see in
training material though is the basics, the kind
of basics that are taught to new users like those
in the education space.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As Jo mentioned there is potential here to
break a monolopy in this space, and get exposure
to new users early in their development. What
makes this even better is a solid training
material base owned by the community can be used
by anyone creating training material, providing a
consistent training base whether you learn in your
own time online or go to trainer "A". Effectively
consolidating the "QGIS beginner" training
material.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Andrew</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Apr 11,
2019 at 2:21 AM Jo Cook <<a
href="mailto:jo.k.cook@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jo.k.cook@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">HI All,
<div><br>
</div>
<div><snip></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Secondly- Cameron's question about QGIS
courses- we also run QGIS training courses in
the UK, and I think there's a fairly wide
market, both geographically, and in the types
of customer. We are focused on integration
with cloud technologies, such as delivering
QGIS via AWS AppStream, and less on teaching
people to use all of the functionality, for
example for higher-end processing and
analysis. Having said that, I think there's a
really big need for standard training
materials- and also if possible the kind of
training materials that could be used for
schools, to try to break the monopoly that
certain proprietary companies have on that
area.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jo</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Apr
10, 2019 at 2:27 PM Cameron Shorter <<a
href="mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">cameron.shorter@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Thanks for the introduction Nick. One
thing that puzzles me is that there
appears to be a lot of people setting up
QGIS training courses and I would have
thought it would be beneficial of these
separate initiatives were to become more
consolidated.</p>
<p>I'd expect that consolidating workshops
would be a very valuable task, as it would
focus the community together.</p>
<p>It would also be a suitably challenging
task to bring multiple threads together,
and something that would be worthy of a
senior technical writer's expertise.</p>
<p>What are people's thoughts on the current
state of available QGIS training courses?
Is there potential to consolidate? Or is
everyone tailoring to their unique user
base? <br>
</p>
<p>Warm regards, Cameron<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div
class="gmail-m_-3061626792538241329gmail-m_-5613301676391199340gmail-m_1594467163975333744gmail-m_-4990625431597427942gmail-m_-8879180848396350800gmail-m_-8174159744361345516moz-cite-prefix">On
10/4/19 10:13 pm, Nick Bearman wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><snip>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm keen to learn how to
contribute more effectively,
particularly to QGIS documentation,
and I am also looking to run a
workshop on how to contribute to OS
documentation at upcoming FOSS4G UK
event in Edinburgh, UK in Sept.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am familiar with Git/GitHub and
Markdown. The RST format of the QGIS
Documentation site sometimes eludes
me! I look forward to working with
you all. </div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre class="gmail-m_-3061626792538241329gmail-m_-5613301676391199340gmail-m_1594467163975333744gmail-m_-4990625431597427942moz-signature" cols="72">--
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier
Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant
M +61 (0) 419 142 254</pre>
</div>
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<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail-m_-3061626792538241329gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr" style="font-size:small"><span
style="font-size:12.8px">Nick Bearman</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-size:small">01209 808910 |
07717745715</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><a
href="mailto:nick@geospatialtrainingsolutions.co.uk"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nick@geospatialtrainingsolutions.co.uk</a></div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">Due to my own life/work
balance, you may get emails from me outside of normal
working hours. Please do not feel any pressure to
respond outside of your own working pattern.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier
Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant
M +61 (0) 419 142 254</pre>
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