<html>
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<p>Jo, I've created myself a second github user id, camerons69, and
have invited camerons69 to the discuss thread.</p>
<p>My 2nd account was then invited to join thegooddocsproject, and
was added to the discuss thread. That worked well.</p>
<p>It appears that the list is not publicly visible, which limits
the value of archiving and searching. I'm not sure if that can be
fixed as a config setting?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 16/8/19 8:31 pm, Jo Cook wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMM8GAtFMv5ZzXu+0LtywNv+UkeG5z9ku_P8yg2OhT8cn2+_Zg@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi All,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I've created a new discussion "team" called "discuss" to
attempt to replicate a standard mailing list. I deliberately
haven't invited anyone to join it but I believe you should all
be able to request access. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think to test this properly, we may need to reduce the
current level of access that some people have, from
repository/project owner down to something with a little less
privileges. Can someone volunteer to have their access
temporarily reduced please? Also can people see what happens
when they try to join the new discuss team?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I can also see that we can have a membership type called
"Outside Collaborator". Is anyone familiar with what that
entails?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jo<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 1:06
PM Sanket Totewar <<a href="mailto:sanket@totewar.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">sanket@totewar.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I've been playing
around with GitHub discussions on the project.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Even though I am
not in the GitHub team, I could try a few things. I reckon
only those on the team or admins have the power to
'delete'.<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at
7:29 AM Jo Cook <<a href="mailto:jo.k.cook@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jo.k.cook@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">Hi Cameron,
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I don't see the need for a GitHub
username to be a showstopper, I see it as being
roughly equivalent to subscribing to a mailing list,
particularly as anyone actually wanting to contribute
will need those credentials anyhow. I was also
envisaging that we'd have an open "team" for general
discussions, as well as the potential for restricted
teams for different use cases if required. I don't see
this as any different to OSGeo's restricted mailing
lists for the board, conferences etc.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I agree being able to delete messages or
threads is problematic, and needs more investigation
though. I have reached out to GitHub help and hope to
get some answers to our questions though. I did get a
response to my initial enquiry, so I'm optimistic we
will get clarification.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Jo</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 14 Aug 2019,
12:07 Cameron Shorter, <<a
href="mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">cameron.shorter@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Ok, I just had a play around with a GitHub teams
discussion page, which Felicity set up and Jo and
I have been added to:<br>
</p>
<p><a
href="https://github.com/orgs/thegooddocsproject/teams/website"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/orgs/thegooddocsproject/teams/website</a></p>
<p>Some major concerns I have with it are:</p>
<p>* I can delete a message I add to a discussion.</p>
<p>* It appears I can also delete someone else's
message if I had a personal gripe with them
(probably because I have admin access). (The
delete button is there, I didn't test it). This
creates a fundamental problem for retaining
archives. <br>
</p>
<p>* It appears I can only contribute to
conversations if I have a github username (and
possibly only if I am a member of the group). Can
someone other than Jo/Felicity/me contribute to
the conversation? This is not going to work as a
community support email list.</p>
<p>I find these two issues significant and are
probably show stoppers for selecting GitHub Team
Discussions to replace an email list.<br>
</p>
<div
class="gmail-m_-1650584746756074163gmail-m_-2017898292039666176gmail-m_3702949989010022072m_-1833219079038969245moz-cite-prefix">On
14/8/19 7:28 am, Sanket Totewar wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><font
face="verdana, sans-serif"><b>From today's
call</b></font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><font
face="verdana, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><font
face="verdana, sans-serif">Additional
comments from Sanket: A couple of features
that GitHub discussions have that make
them a better choice are (1) the ability
to <a
href="https://help.github.com/en/articles/watching-and-unwatching-team-discussions"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">watch/unwatch
teams</a>, <a
href="https://help.github.com/en/articles/subscribing-to-and-unsubscribing-from-notifications"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">subscribe/unsubscribe to/from discussions</a> and <a
href="https://help.github.com/en/articles/pinning-a-team-discussion"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">pin/unpin
discussions</a> and (2) it allows
markdown so we get checklists, emojis,
tables, etc. which greatly improve
readability.</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><font
face="verdana, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><font
face="verdana, sans-serif">Additional
comments from Jo and Cameron: <a
href="https://developer.github.com/v3/teams/discussions/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">The GitHub
discussions API</a> can be used to fetch
discussions but we may need to store them
in a place from time to time in a
searchable format.</font></div>
<br
class="gmail-m_-1650584746756074163gmail-m_-2017898292039666176gmail-m_3702949989010022072m_-1833219079038969245gmail-Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Aug
14, 2019 at 6:29 AM Sanket Totewar <<a
href="mailto:sanket@totewar.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">sanket@totewar.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Sorry
guys for the delay in reply.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I
have some interesting perspective from
some peeps who've used Gmail lists and
GitHub discussions.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Can't
share their names but they have all used
private repos (no public ones) and have
had GitHub organizations with teams in
them.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">P1:
GitHub discussions can go too deep if your
team is spread across the world so we
started using them but moved to slack and
then only added decisions as meeting notes
in Confluence.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">P2:
I've tried using them but didn't like the
style as it does not feel real-time. So we
have calls instead.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">P3:
GitHub discussions might be great for open
source projects but were not relevant to
ours as we had private meetings.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">P4:
Emails are the best as it is so easy to
search through them but of course you need
to know what you are searching for. Google
does a great job here.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">P5:
I've not seen any open source project use
GitHub team discussions.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">P6:
Love GitHub Discussions. They are very
helpful for international teams.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">P7:
GitHub discussions allow inline commenting
and give easy access to links in GitHub
PRs in addition to the comments inside
PRs, they form a good package.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon,
Aug 12, 2019 at 8:18 PM Cameron Shorter
<<a
href="mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">cameron.shorter@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Hi Sanket, are you around and
noticing emails? At our last meeting,
we identified setting up an email list
as our number 2 priority.</p>
<p>Jo, you were also looking into this
and had some ideas. How far did you
get before heading on leave last week?</p>
<p>How should we move forward?</p>
<p>Cheers, Cameron<br>
</p>
<div
class="gmail-m_-1650584746756074163gmail-m_-2017898292039666176gmail-m_3702949989010022072m_-1833219079038969245gmail-m_-131211870352342529gmail-m_-8645000237976080533moz-cite-prefix">On
10/8/19 8:44 am, Cameron Shorter
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>Hi Sanket, did your research into
email list options identify anything
worth passing on?</p>
<p>Cheers, Cameron<br>
</p>
<div
class="gmail-m_-1650584746756074163gmail-m_-2017898292039666176gmail-m_3702949989010022072m_-1833219079038969245gmail-m_-131211870352342529gmail-m_-8645000237976080533moz-cite-prefix">On
1/8/19 7:32 am, Sanket Totewar
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Sounds
good. I have meetings with my
internal support teams that have
used Google Groups and a bunch
of developers that have explored
GitHub discussions so I'll share
their feedback in a few days.</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 1:25 AM Jo
Cook <<a
href="mailto:jo.k.cook@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jo.k.cook@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I've been doing a little
more digging into GitHub
Discussions.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Good:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>* hosted and free (at the
moment)<br>
</div>
<div>* you can align them with
organisational teams, which
would mean we could have one
list for website discussion,
another one for PSC etc. <br>
</div>
<div>* definitely searchable,
but it's a little early to
tell how manageable they are
going to be with a large
number of messages. <br>
</div>
<div>* not needing any
additional logins- people
helping with the project
will need a github login
anyway so we're not asking
them to sign up to anything
extra</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Bad things:</div>
<div>* There's also no
explicit statement on
archiving them, potentially
they will survive as long as
the organisation does. <br>
</div>
<div>* They might transition
to being a paid-for function
at some point</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm not wedded to them,
but it appeals to my sense
of neatness to keep
everything together :-)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jo<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">On Wed,
Jul 31, 2019 at 1:32 PM
Cameron Shorter <<a
href="mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">cameron.shorter@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p><br>
</p>
<div
class="gmail-m_-1650584746756074163gmail-m_-2017898292039666176gmail-m_3702949989010022072m_-1833219079038969245gmail-m_-131211870352342529gmail-m_-8645000237976080533gmail-m_6917265565243095018gmail-m_2702950145621123617moz-cite-prefix">On
31/7/19 7:21 pm, Jo Cook
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<ul>
<li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type:disc;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Discussions- currently using an osgeo mailing list, requirement is for hosted (let’s not maintain a server). Github discussions- not clear on archiving, google groups- probably OK but how long are things archived? Let’s discuss via email. ACTION: SANKET to do some research and start email thread discussing requirements.</span></font></p></li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
<p><font size="2">Sanket,
expanding on what I
think requirements
are:</font></p>
<p><font size="2">* For
long term
sustainability it is
important to keep
things as simple and
low maintenance as
possible.</font></p>
<p><font size="2">* We
want conversations
archived and
searchable (by google
is ok). Eg: </font><br>
<font size="2"><a
href="https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/seasonofdocs/2019-July/thread.html"
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/seasonofdocs/2019-July/thread.html</a></font></p>
<pre class="gmail-m_-1650584746756074163gmail-m_-2017898292039666176gmail-m_3702949989010022072m_-1833219079038969245gmail-m_-131211870352342529gmail-m_-8645000237976080533gmail-m_6917265565243095018gmail-m_2702950145621123617moz-signature" cols="72">--
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier
Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant
M +61 (0) 419 142 254</pre>
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<pre class="gmail-m_-1650584746756074163gmail-m_-2017898292039666176gmail-m_3702949989010022072m_-1833219079038969245gmail-m_-131211870352342529gmail-m_-8645000237976080533moz-signature" cols="72">--
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M +61 (0) 419 142 254</pre>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier
Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant
M +61 (0) 419 142 254</pre>
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