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<p>Hi Serena, which I acknowledge the value of your points, I'm
inclined to agree with Bruce's points that the OSGeo volunteer
organisation shouldn't be subsidising a funded organisations such
as the UN (who I've heard are able to find money to purchase ESRI
licenses).</p>
<p>It is hard to teach an organisation like the UN that they should
pay to gain the value of Open Source if we keep diverting our
budget toward giving them a free ride.<br>
</p>
<p>Warm regards, Cameron<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 17/1/19 7:48 am, Bruce Bannerman
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:4EA75141-F987-43CB-BC6A-6CA16261065E@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">Thanks for the more detailed information Serena.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">I understand the issue of supporting young and not
so young OSGeo volunteers. This is also behind the point that I
was trying to make.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">There is a principle here, that as a volunteer
organisation OSGeo can’t afford to be subsidising other
organisations’ use of open source. These organisations need to b<span
style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">e encouraged
to contribute back to the community, whether through funding,
or in kind contributions of staff time and effort, etc.</span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">However, I will not pursue my intervention further
at this stage. I appreciate the work that this team is doing and
do not wish to derail that effort and good work.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Kind regards,</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Bruce</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
On 16 Jan 2019, at 22:48, Serena Coetzee <<a
href="mailto:serenacoetzee@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">serenacoetzee@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Dear Bruce, <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>thanks for the constructive comments. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>OSGeo is a partner in the UN Open GIS initiative and,
as partner, OSGeo has to support the project.
Participation in the initiative is done by volunteers
(from OSGeo) and we can't ask the volunteers to pay with
their money. This is the reason for the first request.
OSGeo partnering in the UN Open GIS initiative should
benefit you and all other
OSGeo members. Let us know if there anything that the
person travelling to Sudan can do to also improve your
case.<br>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>About the development of training material, this
raises awareness of open source software for
geospatial and contributes to capacity building in
OSGeo. It is a way to support young OSGeo members.
Such challenges are common place in industry. The
mentors are working for OSGeo as volunteers,
increasing the visibility of OSGeo within the UN and
beyond. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Serena<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
Serena Coetzee (GPr GISc 1245)<br>
<br>
University of Pretoria<br>
Director: Centre for Geoinformation Science<br>
Professor and Head of Department Geography,
Geoinformatics and Meteorology<br>
Geography Building 3-5, Hatfield Campus, Lynnwood
Road, Hatfield, 0083, South Africa<br>
email: <a href="mailto:serena.coetzee@up.ac.za"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">serena.coetzee@up.ac.za</a>
· Web: <a href="http://www.up.ac.za/ggm"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.up.ac.za/ggm</a>
· Mobile: +27 82 464 4294 · Tel: +27 12 420 3823<br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at
2:16 AM Bruce Bannerman <<a
href="mailto:bruce.bannerman.osgeo@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">bruce.bannerman.osgeo@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">Hello Maria,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I do appreciate your passion towards this
initiative and the outreach work that you do. </div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>However, I am very uncomfortable with the
approach outlined in the proposal below.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The UN should appreciate the value of open source
spatial software by now and be willing to contribute
back to the open source community.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Therefore, I believe that the activities
suggested below should be funded by the UN and not
OSGeo.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regarding the items in the proposal below:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Item 1) If this is for a UN Project and they
value OSGeo representation, then that should be a UN
Project cost and not an OSGeo cost.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Item 2) I’m not sure what this is, but I
interpret it to be for the preparation of QGIS
training material specific for UN staff. If so, then
again this should be a UN funded activity. The UN
may wish to view this as a voluntary contribution
that they make to the QGIS Community in part
recognition of the benefit that they are receiving
from the use of the QGIS Open Source software. This
is also an activity that could be undertaken by an
commercial organisation that specialises in working
with this type of open source software.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Item 3) I’m not sure what this is, but it also
sounds like an activity that would be for UN
benefit. If so, then again, they should be paying.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>IMO, we need to push back against the expectation
that open source is free (as in free beer). There is
always a cost to produce and maintain open source
and I would like to see those who benefit from using
the software to be encouraged to contribute back to
the open source communities.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have been working actively for many years
within one of the UN Agencies and am making some
real headway towards this agency accepting the value
of an open source approach to a specific problem
that they have. I can’t discuss this publicly yet.
I’m sure that you’ll appreciate that the wheels can
move quite slowly at times as people become
comfortable with what is in reality a new approach
for them and they have internal processes that need
to be followed.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If I have misunderstood the intent of the
proposed items in your email, then I apologise in
advance.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kind regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Bruce</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On 16 Jan 2019, at 06:03, Maria Antonia
Brovelli <<a
href="mailto:maria.brovelli@polimi.it"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">maria.brovelli@polimi.it</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br
class="gmail-m_-1087168981861264407Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div
id="gmail-m_-1087168981861264407divtagdefaultwrapper"
dir="ltr"
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Dear
All</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">it
is time to make the proposal to OSGeo
Board for the activities of the UN
Committee in 2019.</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">We
have the UN Open GIS Initiative entering
in its third year of activities; many
people of the UN staff have been trained
in QGIS and PostGIS (more than 100) thanks
to volunteers of GeoForAll. </div>
<div
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Currently,
there is the third edition of QGIS
(Victoria Rautenbach chairing the
initiative; Thomas Mueller and Cameron
Green mentoring)and the second one of
PostGIS (Ivana Ivanova chairing, Paolo
Corti, Oliva Martin Sanchez, and Gregory
Giuliani mentoring). </div>
<div
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">About
UN Open GIS Initiative the request will
be:</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">1)
support for attending a couple of project
meeting and training - (one will be
probably in South Sudan) 5000$</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">2)
one UN OSGeo Challenge (similar to what we
organized last year) to prepare a new
training material course on PostGIS (the
one we are using, which is a Boundless
one, has to be updated and re-built
considering the experience of the trainees
and trainers). The budget for this
initiative will be 3000 $, the same as the
initiatives of last year. In case we got
financed, Ivana Ivanova and I can be the
mentor of the winner of the Challenge.</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">3)
Moreover, we can ask some budget for
another training course about SDGs and
open data/open software. Last year Codrina
Maria Ilie was the winner and the training
material is almost ready and will be
released soon (it is about the computation
of SDG indicator 9.1.1 using QGIS). The
budget can be 3000 $, the same as last
year and Serena Coetzee and I can be the
mentor.</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Obviously
if you there is somebody who wants to
offer her/himself as a mentor, they are
more than welcome!</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Please
let me know if you have comments. If none,
I will proceed with the proposal.</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Bets
regards,</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Maria</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><br>
</div>
<div
id="gmail-m_-1087168981861264407Signature">
<div
id="gmail-m_-1087168981861264407divtagdefaultwrapper"
dir="ltr"
style="font-size:12pt;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple
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<div name="divtagdefaultwrapper"
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px">Please
pay attention to these two
opportunities:</div>
<div name="divtagdefaultwrapper"
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px"><br>
</div>
<div name="divtagdefaultwrapper"
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px">A
new IJGI Special Issue
<div>"State-of-the-Art in Spatial
Information Science"<br>
</div>
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)</div>
<div name="divtagdefaultwrapper"
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px"><br>
</div>
<div name="divtagdefaultwrapper"
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px"><a
href="http://www.mdpi.com/journal/ijgi/special_issues/ISPRS_2020_Nice"
class="gmail-m_-1087168981861264407OWAAutoLink"
id="gmail-m_-1087168981861264407LPNoLP" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.mdpi.com/journal/ijgi/special_issues/ISPRS_2020_Nice</a><br>
</div>
<div name="divtagdefaultwrapper"
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px"><br>
</div>
<div name="divtagdefaultwrapper"
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px">A
new Transaction in GIS Special Issue</div>
<div name="divtagdefaultwrapper"
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px">"<span>Open
Source Geospatial Science, Software
and Education"</span></div>
<div name="divtagdefaultwrapper"
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px"><span><span
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px">(deadline
for abstract submissions: 15
february 2019)</span><br>
</span></div>
<div name="divtagdefaultwrapper"
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px"><span><span
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><a
href="https://wol-prod-cdn.literatumonline.com/pb-assets/assets/14679671/Open%20Geospatial%20Science%20Software%20and%20Education.pdf"
class="gmail-m_-1087168981861264407OWAAutoLink"
id="gmail-m_-1087168981861264407LPNoLP"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://wol-prod-cdn.literatumonline.com/pb-assets/assets/14679671/Open%20Geospatial%20Science%20Software%20and%20Education.pdf</a><br>
</span></span></div>
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style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px"><br>
</div>
<div name="divtagdefaultwrapper"
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px"><br>
</div>
<div name="divtagdefaultwrapper"
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px"><br>
</div>
<div name="divtagdefaultwrapper"
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px"><font
size="3" face="'Trebuchet MS',
sans-serif"><span
style="background-color:rgb(204,153,255)"><font><b><span
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">----------------------------------------------------</span></b></font></span></font></div>
<div name="divtagdefaultwrapper"
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px"><span
style="font-size:14pt"><b>Prof.
Maria Antonia Brovelli</b></span><br>
<div><font size="3" face="'Trebuchet
MS', sans-serif">Professor of GIS
and Digital Mapping<br>
Politecnico di Milano</font></div>
<br>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span>P.zza
Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3
- 20133 Milano (Italy)</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span>Tel.
+39-02-23996242 - Mob.</span><span><span
class="gmail-m_-1087168981861264407Apple-converted-space"> </span>+39-328-0023867, </span><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span><font
style="font-size:12pt"
color="333333"><font
face="'Trebuchet MS',
sans-serif"><a
href="mailto:maria.brovelli@polimi.it"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">maria.brovelli@polimi.it</a></font></font></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><font
style="font-size:12pt"
color="333333"><font
face="'Trebuchet MS',
sans-serif"><a
href="https://orcid.org/0000-0003-3161-556"
class="gmail-m_-1087168981861264407OWAAutoLink"
id="gmail-m_-1087168981861264407LPNoLP"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://orcid.org/0000-0003-3161-556</a><br>
</font></font></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><br>
<span></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><br>
<br>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm
0cm 0pt"><font size="3"
face="'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif"> </font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<span
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<a href="mailto:UN@lists.osgeo.org"
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un</a></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href="mailto:UN@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">UN@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:UN@lists.osgeo.org">UN@lists.osgeo.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier
Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant
M +61 (0) 419 142 254</pre>
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