[OSGeo Africa] Kathu coordinate system

Fri Jan 31 01:08:08 PST 2014

Thanks to everyone who has answered and sorry for the late reply, I
only get the digest of the email list.

I shall have a look and report back on if and what method I found to
georeference or reproduce the diagram. My preference was to reproduce
rather then georeference because it involves an Eskom servitude and I
thought the intirisic loss of accuracy involved in georeferencing
would make a significant  impact on such narrow areas.

Cheers
Hanlie

2014-01-31, Stephan Koch <SKOCH at ruraldevelopment.gov.za>:
> Hi Adri,
>
> The co-ord system under discussion could only be the Bosman local
> system. I have attached the co-ord list of the Bosman system with
> reference to the Kuruman Division. I hope this will assist with solving
> your query.
>
> Regards
>
>
>
>
> Stephan Koch
> Control Industrial Technician
> Directorate: Survey Services
> T: +27 (0)21 658 4362
> F: +27 (0)21 658 4357
> C: +27 (0)82 577 5663
>
> skoch at ruraldevelopment.gov.za
> http://ngi.gov.za
> http://www.trignet.co.za
>>>> Adri De La Rey <dlReyA at eskom.co.za> 1/31/2014 9:32 AM >>>
> Dear Hanlie
>
> It was surveyed on a local system not connected to the national survey
> system as there was not yet a national survey control system in place.
> Your best answer is to get a professional Land Surveyor to solve the
> challenge.
>
> There are all over South Africa surveys that were done on a local
> systems and we will  have them with us for ever in GIS.  In the guateng
> we have the goldfields system consisting of 4 separate system
>
> Stephan Kock of the NGI should write us a nice article about that but
> it will need a lot of research
>
> There will not be a universal answer to this.
>
> This is also the reason that our professional students should have some
> serious exposure to geodesy
>
> Regards Adri
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gerhard Brits
> Sent: 31 January 2014 09:18 AM
> To: Adri De La Rey; hanlie.pretorius at gmail.com
> Subject: FW: Africa Digest, Vol 84, Issue 17
>
> Hi Mnr
>
> Enige idea wat die system kan wees. Sien onder.
>
> Groete
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: africa-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> [mailto:africa-bounces at lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of
> africa-request at lists.osgeo.org
> Sent: 30 January 2014 07:26 PM
> To: africa at lists.osgeo.org
> Subject: Africa Digest, Vol 84, Issue 17
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Kathu coordinate system (Hanlie Pretorius)
>    2. Re: Kathu coordinate system (Grant Slater)
>    3. Re: Kathu coordinate system (Gavin Fleming)
>    4. Re: Kathu coordinate system (Walter Smit)
>    5. Re: Kathu coordinate system (Zoltan Szecsei)
>    6. Re: Kathu coordinate system (Peter Newmarch)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 13:56:16 +0200
> From: Hanlie Pretorius <hanlie.pretorius at gmail.com>
> To: Africa local chapter discussions <africa at lists.osgeo.org>
> Subject: [OSGeo Africa] Kathu coordinate system
> Message-ID:
> <CAFpCUPoeX2kug=MxaZiSFSi7OAqeZ_KGNqXV0yjSEJ1m0xEpPg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi,
>
> I a hand-drawn survey diagram that I need to reproduce in QGIS. The
> area is in the Northen Cape, close to the 23? E longitude.
>
> The diagram was done in 1968 and its coordinate system is specified as
> 'Kathu System'. The y coordinates are given first, are all positive and
> they range from about 23 000 to 49 000. The x coordinates are given
> second and they range from +31 000 to -153 000.
>
> Can anyone tell me what the specifications for this coordinate system
> would be? I.e. the information I would need to create a WKT or proj4
> specification for the CRS.
>
> Thanks
> Hanlie
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 12:11:09 +0000
> From: Grant Slater <openstreetmap at firefishy.com>
> To: Africa local chapter discussions <africa at lists.osgeo.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo Africa] Kathu coordinate system
> Message-ID:
> <CAGXuowgiEO2gr0A8+mjMv2iMjq3cmrKFh254vife2KfuzEgV6w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi,
>
> Likely Transverse Mercator in meters with origin of -27.70, 23.05 (town
> of Kathu, Northern Cape)
>
> Something like: "+proj=tmerc +lat_0=-27.70 +lon_0=23.05 +units=m"
>
> / Grant
>
> On 30 January 2014 11:56, Hanlie Pretorius <hanlie.pretorius at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I a hand-drawn survey diagram that I need to reproduce in QGIS. The
>> area is in the Northen Cape, close to the 23? E longitude.
>>
>> The diagram was done in 1968 and its coordinate system is specified
> as
>> 'Kathu System'. The y coordinates are given first, are all positive
>> and they range from about 23 000 to 49 000. The x coordinates are
>> given second and they range from +31 000 to -153 000.
>>
>> Can anyone tell me what the specifications for this coordinate system
>
>> would be? I.e. the information I would need to create a WKT or proj4
>
>> specification for the CRS.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Hanlie
>> _______________________________________________
>> Africa mailing list
>> Africa at lists.osgeo.org
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/africa
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 14:17:40 +0200
> From: Gavin Fleming <gavin at afrispatial.co.za>
> To: africa at lists.osgeo.org
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo Africa] Kathu coordinate system
> Message-ID: <52EA42E4.3070206 at afrispatial.co.za>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Looks like it's south-oriented transverse mercator with a central
> meridian of 23 and an offset of some nice round number > 3000000 on the
> SO x axis (or a local reference latitude) and it would likely be on the
> Cape datum. A bit of playing around these parameters will hopefully
> position it right.
>
> Does searching on the khathu system not turn up anything?
>
> On 30/01/2014 13:56, Hanlie Pretorius wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I a hand-drawn survey diagram that I need to reproduce in QGIS. The
>> area is in the Northen Cape, close to the 23? E longitude.
>>
>> The diagram was done in 1968 and its coordinate system is specified
> as
>> 'Kathu System'. The y coordinates are given first, are all positive
>> and they range from about 23 000 to 49 000. The x coordinates are
>> given second and they range from +31 000 to -153 000.
>>
>> Can anyone tell me what the specifications for this coordinate system
>
>> would be? I.e. the information I would need to create a WKT or proj4
>
>> specification for the CRS.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Hanlie
>> _______________________________________________
>> Africa mailing list
>> Africa at lists.osgeo.org
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/africa
>
>
> --
> regards
>
> Gavin
>
> Gavin Fleming
> http://afrispatial.co.za
> t: 0218630660
> c: 0845965680
> f: 0866164820
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 15:00:02 +0200
> From: "Walter Smit" <walter.s at sa-solutions.co.za>
> To: "'Africa local chapter discussions'" <africa at lists.osgeo.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo Africa] Kathu coordinate system
> Message-ID: <003d01cf1dbb$33f640a0$9be2c1e0$@sa-solutions.co.za>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I agree with Gavin...since it is from a surveyor and from pre-1999...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: africa-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> [mailto:africa-bounces at lists.osgeo.org]
> On Behalf Of Gavin Fleming
> Sent: 30 January 2014 02:18 PM
> To: africa at lists.osgeo.org
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo Africa] Kathu coordinate system
>
> Looks like it's south-oriented transverse mercator with a central
> meridian of 23 and an offset of some nice round number > 3000000 on the
> SO x axis (or a local reference latitude) and it would likely be on the
> Cape datum. A bit of playing around these parameters will hopefully
> position it right.
>
> Does searching on the khathu system not turn up anything?
>
> On 30/01/2014 13:56, Hanlie Pretorius wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I a hand-drawn survey diagram that I need to reproduce in QGIS. The
>> area is in the Northen Cape, close to the 23? E longitude.
>>
>> The diagram was done in 1968 and its coordinate system is specified
> as
>> 'Kathu System'. The y coordinates are given first, are all positive
>> and they range from about 23 000 to 49 000. The x coordinates are
>> given second and they range from +31 000 to -153 000.
>>
>> Can anyone tell me what the specifications for this coordinate system
>
>> would be? I.e. the information I would need to create a WKT or proj4
>
>> specification for the CRS.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Hanlie
>> _______________________________________________
>> Africa mailing list
>> Africa at lists.osgeo.org
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/africa
>
>
> --
> regards
>
> Gavin
>
> Gavin Fleming
> http://afrispatial.co.za
> t: 0218630660
> c: 0845965680
> f: 0866164820
>
> _______________________________________________
> Africa mailing list
> Africa at lists.osgeo.org
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/africa
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 18:30:06 +0200
> From: Zoltan Szecsei <zoltans at geograph.co.za>
> To: africa at lists.osgeo.org
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo Africa] Kathu coordinate system
> Message-ID: <52EA7E0E.7050805 at geograph.co.za>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi,
> Kathu is a mining area, so there is a distinct possibility (for the
> less informed, aka: me) that this is a local coordinate system used by
> mine surveyors (in the area).
> I have blind copied a surveyor friend of mine on this response, and
> hopefully he knows someone who might have worked in the area, and get
> some info for you.
> In the meantime research kathu+survey+system
>
> Regards,
> Zoltan
>
>
>
> On 30/01/2014 15:00, Walter Smit wrote:
>> I agree with Gavin...since it is from a surveyor and from
> pre-1999...
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: africa-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> [mailto:africa-bounces at lists.osgeo.org]
>> On Behalf Of Gavin Fleming
>> Sent: 30 January 2014 02:18 PM
>> To: africa at lists.osgeo.org
>> Subject: Re: [OSGeo Africa] Kathu coordinate system
>>
>> Looks like it's south-oriented transverse mercator with a central
>> meridian of 23 and an offset of some nice round number > 3000000 on
>> the SO x axis (or a local reference latitude) and it would likely be
>
>> on the Cape datum. A bit of playing around these parameters will
> hopefully position it right.
>>
>> Does searching on the khathu system not turn up anything?
>>
>> On 30/01/2014 13:56, Hanlie Pretorius wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I a hand-drawn survey diagram that I need to reproduce in QGIS. The
>
>>> area is in the Northen Cape, close to the 23? E longitude.
>>>
>>> The diagram was done in 1968 and its coordinate system is specified
>
>>> as 'Kathu System'. The y coordinates are given first, are all
>>> positive and they range from about 23 000 to 49 000. The x
>>> coordinates are given second and they range from +31 000 to -153
> 000.
>>>
>>> Can anyone tell me what the specifications for this coordinate
> system
>>> would be? I.e. the information I would need to create a WKT or proj4
>
>>> specification for the CRS.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Hanlie
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Africa mailing list
>>> Africa at lists.osgeo.org
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/africa
>>
>> --
>> regards
>>
>> Gavin
>>
>> Gavin Fleming
>> http://afrispatial.co.za
>> t: 0218630660
>> c: 0845965680
>> f: 0866164820
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Africa mailing list
>> Africa at lists.osgeo.org
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/africa
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Africa mailing list
>> Africa at lists.osgeo.org
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/africa
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 19:25:22 +0200
> From: Peter Newmarch <newmarch at land-surveyors.com>
> To: africa at lists.osgeo.org
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo Africa] Kathu coordinate system
> Message-ID: <52EA8B02.3060301 at land-surveyors.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> It is in all likelihood a local system. I don't work in that region so
> I don't know this system.
>
> If its a property diagram, then the local land surveyor will be able to
> tell you the details of that system (probably based on some church spire
> or other reference point as origin).
>
> The coordinates are not really important to us as Land Surveyors and
> hold little importance . If you don't come right, let me know and I will
> make some enquiries for you.
>
> Regards
> Peter
>
> Peter Newmarch
> Professional Land Surveyor
> 4Y GeoInformatics Pty Ltd
> Tel       : +27 31 5642856
> Fax       : +27 31 5643074
> Mobile    : +27 82 5705859
> eMail     : newmarch at land-surveyors.com
>
> On 2014/01/30 06:30 PM, Zoltan Szecsei wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Kathu is a mining area, so there is a distinct possibility (for the
>> less informed, aka: me) that this is a local coordinate system used
> by
>> mine surveyors (in the area).
>> I have blind copied a surveyor friend of mine on this response, and
>> hopefully he knows someone who might have worked in the area, and get
>
>> some info for you.
>> In the meantime research kathu+survey+system
>>
>> Regards,
>> Zoltan
>>
>>
>>
>> On 30/01/2014 15:00, Walter Smit wrote:
>>> I agree with Gavin...since it is from a surveyor and from
> pre-1999...
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: africa-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>>> [mailto:africa-bounces at lists.osgeo.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Gavin Fleming
>>> Sent: 30 January 2014 02:18 PM
>>> To: africa at lists.osgeo.org
>>> Subject: Re: [OSGeo Africa] Kathu coordinate system
>>>
>>> Looks like it's south-oriented transverse mercator with a central
>>> meridian of 23 and an offset of some nice round number > 3000000 on
>
>>> the SO x axis (or a local reference latitude) and it would likely be
>
>>> on the Cape datum.
>>> A bit
>>> of playing around these parameters will hopefully position it
> right.
>>>
>>> Does searching on the khathu system not turn up anything?
>>>
>>> On 30/01/2014 13:56, Hanlie Pretorius wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I a hand-drawn survey diagram that I need to reproduce in QGIS. The
>
>>>> area is in the Northen Cape, close to the 23? E longitude.
>>>>
>>>> The diagram was done in 1968 and its coordinate system is specified
>
>>>> as 'Kathu System'. The y coordinates are given first, are all
>>>> positive and they range from about 23 000 to 49 000. The x
>>>> coordinates are given second and they range from +31 000 to -153
> 000.
>>>>
>>>> Can anyone tell me what the specifications for this coordinate
>>>> system would be? I.e. the information I would need to create a WKT
>
>>>> or proj4 specification for the CRS.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Hanlie
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Africa mailing list
>>>> Africa at lists.osgeo.org
>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/africa
>>>
>>> --
>>> regards
>>>
>>> Gavin
>>>
>>> Gavin Fleming
>>> http://afrispatial.co.za
>>> t: 0218630660
>>> c: 0845965680
>>> f: 0866164820
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Africa mailing list
>>> Africa at lists.osgeo.org
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/africa
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Africa mailing list
>>> Africa at lists.osgeo.org
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/africa
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Africa mailing list
>> Africa at lists.osgeo.org
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/africa
>>
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