[OSGeo Africa] Another illegal GIS RfQ - Open source or commercial GIS software or both?

Fri Oct 18 11:28:42 PDT 2019

Hi Colleagues

Proprietary software Vs Open source debate very interesting topic.

Regards
sibonelo

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019, 00:30 G Tadonki <gtadonki at gmail.com wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I felt it may help to share a few bits from my experience with large-scale
> GIS operations and procurement in the United Nations, either in direct
> implementation or providing support to national public entities. There is
> no clear cut solution in GIS that fit all.
>
> 1.       If you are in an organization with a strong policy environment
> covering IT and procurement, things are tight. You must comply, your margin
> for innovation is limited and the fight is often not worth it or too risky.
> Furthermore, things are complicated with money, influence and monopolies.
> Therefore, the choice for GIS and other software, it is not black and
> white. Safely follow your organization’s rules.
>
>
> 2.       Generally, my advice is to go for the GIS infrastructure and
> software that you can AFFORD and you can really USE, and follow GEOSPATIAL
> standards. This statement comes with many implications. But let’s keep it
> simple: what GIS can you afford and will contribute to the overall
> productivity of your organization?  At the end of the day, what matters is
> productivity and results using GIS. Wishful thinking is a costly mistake. I
> know many organizations with sophisticated hardware and the latest version
> of costly GIS software but with little usage/productivity. This situation
> is to be avoided.
>
>
> 3.       In some cases, if you can afford it, go commercial or open
> source with good support services (not always easy).
>
>
> 4.       If you cannot afford it, don’t get stuck in the prehistory of
> GIS software. Go open source and be ready to get your hands dirty to get
> results. Today on the desktop side (including as a client to a server),
> there are great software for free and the support cost is low, as many
> helping hands are around. Just be prepared to invest time to learn, educate
> and share. There are tons of free manuals, tutorials, videos, user and
> expert forums, etc. Yes, there is a learning curve, but it can be fun.
> Guess what, all software have a learning curve, even commercial software.
>
>
> 5.       Look at OSes, Linux Ubuntu or Mint are great distros. If you are
> stuck with Windows 7, please move to Linux Ubuntu, you will see your
> productivity jump. Ubuntu is beautiful and very likely to have all the
> drivers for all the equipment in your office. It is more secure than
> Windows 7 and it will take your staff into the twenty-first century of
> desktop computing. Literally, everything new and up to date will be
> available to you and your colleagues (I have been using Linux since the
> first version and I have tried tons of distros, I still do it lately, I am
> very happy with Ubuntu and Mint). It is a good idea to invest a little in
> training for your IT support staff, a bit of training for staff and be
> creative in motivating users to work with Ubuntu. Look at OpenOffice,
> LibreOffice, Thunderbird for email, QGIS, GRASS, SAGA, and tons of software
> you can safely install on Linux workstations with just an Internet
> connection and a safe click from a valid repository, without paying a dime.
> Think about that and try it. Many assumptions on how hard opensource
> software are outdated.
>
>
> 6.       On the server-side, Linux is the way to go in Africa,
> particularly for geospatial infrastructure. Keep standards in mind.
>
>
> 7.       Let’s not go too far. In the early days of desktop GIS, ArcView
> was great but costly, although easy to crack… I saw many organizations in 3
> rd world countries do great things with ArcView, using scripts, etc.
> (cracked, no dongle…). Came MapInfo, a lot easier, full of data capturing
> and editing functions (also easy to crack…). ArcInfo was a lot more costly
> and difficult to implement and … to crack (but many cracked versions were
> available too…).
>
>
> 8.       ArcGIS environment is beautiful, tested and highly supported.
> QGIS has matured fast, as a free solution. QGIS 3.18 (3.14 long term stable
> version) is amazing as a desktop GIS solution and as a client to any
> industry geospatial data server. I believe that any GIS practitioner in
> Africa should seriously look at it and invest a bit in learning it. It
> shows how far we are coming from and what we have achieved in the
> community. For the user, you have an amazing tool, with a lot of vector and
> raster geoprocessing tools. It offers endless possibilities through
> scripting with Python and more. Just look at the ready to use plugins
> available, it is a gold mine for data management and spatial analysis.
> Data editing capabilities are amazing. You can connect to hundreds of
> servers in the world to download data. You can contribute too. You may use
> GRASS and SAGA in the same environment.
>
>
> 9.       Today, if your budget is limited now and, in the future, open
> source and a budget for local support is highly recommended. Go: Linux
> Ubuntu, QGIS, etc. Your organization will remain on top of the technology.
> Don’t take the risk of staying behind and poor GIS productivity.
>
>
> 10.   However, commercial solutions are robust and support readily
> available (with accountability if something goes wrong. Companies like ESRI
> and Microsoft care about the reputation of their business). There are still
> many bugs in QGIS for example and between updates, some functionalities may
> be moved around in a way that disorients the no-expert user. While it is
> easy for the Geek to find that hidden function, the basic user doesn’t have
> that time to waste. A simple picture, if you used ArcView and ArcInfo, or
> MS Office 2000, products from ESRI and Microsoft are familiar to you. It is
> easier to be productive with the latest version. With opensource, it can be
> frustrating without support. So, if the organization can afford it in the
> short and long term, it makes sense to go commercial.
>
>
> 11.   Finally, my advice is to keep a mix of commercial and open source
> solutions. In the early days, I use to procure Arc products and MapInfo in
> the same office or project, along with ERDAS, ENVI, etc. There as times
> when one software does something much better and faster than the other. You
> will understand what I mean. In the same way, I introduced my projects to
> Manifold, a wonderful GIS software in Windows environment (quite cheap
> also). I recommend introducing QGIS in the same way in offices. It is a
> great Swiss knife for GIS. It can handle and incredible number of data
> types and database connections. It can help.
>
> 12. For African students, using open source software is great way to
> learn, stay abreast with the latest technologies, earning invaluable skills
> for professional future.
>
>
> Best to all,
>
>
> Prof Georges Tadonki
> Geographer
>
> Former UN Senior Regional Data and Information Adviser
> Former elected Board member, EIS-Africa and AfricaGIS
> Former professor Asian Institute of Technolology, Bangkok
> Former Honorary Professor, Unisa, Johannesburg
>
>
> Sent with Android
>
> On Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 16:01 Justin Saunders <justin at gis.africa> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> People need educating as to what they actually need as they don’t often
>> have the knowledge and those offering the solutions need to deliver the
>> best ones and “hold the hand” of the client. At the end of the day the
>> quality of a product like QGIS and the affordability of only having to
>> bring in trainers and customisation experts will win over the current
>> inertia of ESRI GIS.
>>
>> A clear example which happens often in Africa is the procurement of
>> Laptop’s and Workstations that  have 32bit windows software installed on
>> 64bit architecture!  It works out of the box but is the wrong solution.
>> (Check yours now as it may be the case 😳)!! Procurement officers don’t
>> always have the IT skills to know otherwise.
>>
>> There are many skilled people in the open source community who offer
>> support and maintenance for fees (just like proprietary companies) so the
>> argument for not having support on offer isn’t a very strong one. Plenty of
>> free support is available but if you need professional support then hire it.
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> Whatsapp: +44 7956 285077
>> Skype: lotfrance
>> French mob: +33 768 751 750
>> UK mob: +44 7956 285077
>> Malawi mob: +265 99 855 7007
>>
>> On 17 Oct 2019, at 14:14, Leon Vosloo <leon.v at govanmbeki.gov.za> wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>>
>>
>>
>> I followed some of the discussions on this topic, and it is not as easy
>> as you would like it to sound. I want to raise a few issues which I hope
>> may give an better understanding and personally think need to be addressed
>> to ease the mind of people afraid of using it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Before I continue, I need to say that I personally are a supporter for
>> open source packages.
>>
>>
>>
>> However issues that is surely uncertain in the open community is the
>> following: (taking into account that it is not everyone that know about
>> these packages or have the know how where to get it or what its reliability
>> is, and what is the best package for me or is it user friendly. We are in
>> general people from different profession backgrounds. So in short people
>> use what they know what works for them.)
>>
>>
>>
>> ·         Some years back I wanted to install Linux to my personal
>> computer – the hardware supplier did not even want to go that route giving
>> reasons like – there are too many basic operating software packages that
>> they are afraid of installing the OS, as they will have to install too many
>> other add–on’s  to let all the hardware and software work. Till today I
>> rather stay away as I am no expert in this field.
>>
>> ·         I am using open office at home- the problem is if I give this
>> information (e.g. Spreadsheet file) to someone else, some functionalities
>> is claimed not to work properly and there is always a message that
>> information can be lost. We live in an environment where people cannot
>> afford to lose any data. So security and integrity of data is key, even
>> sharing between paid and non-paid software.
>>
>> ·         There is no e-mail package that integrates with an open office
>> package that I know off, or work as easy as outlook. Not even the one I am
>> using (forgot its name).
>>
>> ·         GIS – this is in a different league as it entails a lot more
>> than the above.
>>
>> o   When it comes to desktop applications I think there are good open
>> source products that can be used and it is surely debatable which is
>> superior or more suitable software for an company or institution as needs
>> differ. My little knowledge about it is that specific GIS packages have
>> been developed for specific needs – meaning that they are strong in certain
>> functionalities e.g. 3D. Government need a good all-rounder, capable of
>> dealing with many and large datasets.
>>
>> o   A lot of institutions and government bodies works with limited
>> personnel. So good support structures are needed and also needs to be
>> available to visit offices to assist with sorting out issues that may
>> arise. I have not seen or heard about any such business supporting open
>> source GIS or any other open source software.
>>
>> o   Software Training is needed from time to time, especially when it is
>> used for the first time or when upgrades was installed.
>>
>> o   GIS is normally also kept on a server. Again there are limited
>> information available on what combinations of open source software is
>> available and works perfectly together. This now ranges from OS, SQL, GIS
>> server software, Backup solution, office package, security solutions, even
>> desktop GIS compatibility, etc. things that may be common knowledge to you
>> may be a mountain for someone else.
>>
>> o   It is one thing to know what works well together but is it a good
>> all-rounder package to the needs of the institution, and who can set it up.
>> Remember I made the comment that most institutions work with limited staff
>> and GIS have various Fields of expertise.
>>
>> o   I think one can add a lot more issues to this list but will stop
>> here.
>>
>> ·         Government tenders: I have seen a few comments that is a
>> concern to the open source community and I am not trying to defend anyone,
>> I am talking from my perspective.
>>
>> o   Tenders should be open and fair and that is correct. Government
>> Tenders should comply with National treasury regulations. The employer is
>> therefore limited in using brand names. For example, if I need spares for a
>> Toyota, you should indicate the brand and model, etc. of the vehicle,
>> otherwise the tenderer will not know what to tender for. Surely a Mahindra
>> petrol pump may not work on it (maybe it will I don’t know) yet there are
>> universal spares available. The employer now have a problem as he needs a
>> specific quality. You also do not want a situation the potential supplier
>> tender for genuine parts, but delivers sub-standard products. So you ask
>> that it at least be measured against a standard, or minimum SABS, or
>> whatever the case may be and that the tenderer provided on the tender
>> document the brand name tendered for.
>>
>> o   With Software this is not as easy and compatibility and costs starts
>> to be an issue.
>>
>> o   The issue of licences needed does not necessarily refer to a
>> specific GIS brand (as there is again a few paid GIS software options
>> available). It is a way to indicate how many people will need to use the
>> software either desktop users, internal web based viewers from the server,
>> direct users to the server, etc.  So I do not see this as ring-fencing but
>> rather information, on how big the setup is. I believe certain GIS server
>> software is more suitable for small user groups while others can deal with
>> huge groups. It is up to the tenderer to decide on the licence price. I can
>> see that there are frustrations and maybe legal issues in this. After all -
>> Open source is supposed to be free:-
>>
>> o   I think if someone (company / supplier / individual) do his homework
>> very well come up with a very good proposal and can guarantee long term
>> support, installation, setup, and training service (for a price)  a tender
>> might just be won (and of course I cannot guarantee that). It is an open
>> market and everyone (open source and paid programs) should be able to have
>> an equal opportunity to tender.
>>
>>
>>
>> Are there anyone in the open source community who can deliver support
>> services on a full time basis?
>>
>>
>>
>> Please people, I am not criticising, I just wanted to highlight some
>> issues and that you also understand that there is a lot of uncertainties
>> about a lot of issues.  I think there is still a lot of research to be done
>> and knowledge be shared through good marketing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Leon
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Africa [mailto:africa-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>> <africa-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>] *On Behalf Of *Immo Blecher
>> *Sent:* 16 October 2019 09:56 PM
>> *To:* Africa local chapter discussions <africa at lists.osgeo.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [OSGeo Africa] Another illegal GIS RfQ
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I think this is ignorance. The people involved in sourcing the software,
>> whatever it is (even Office packages) have got no clue, because they don't
>> care. So they go the easy route... Just quote for whatever we have. And as
>> long as there is nobody looking into "hey dude... are you actually doing
>> your job? Have you investigated other options? " nothing will change. And
>> even marketing the alternatives won't help...this will take time!!!
>>
>> My 2 cents.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Immo F. Blecher
>>
>> Street: 36 Saffraan Ave., Die Boord, Stellenbosch, 7613, South Africa
>>
>> Postal: PO Box 74, Lynedoch, 7603, South Africa
>>
>> Cell: +27 83 272 6791 | Fax: +27 86 736 3302
>>
>> Email:  immo at blecher.co.za  | immob19 at gmail.com  | immob at mymtnmail.co.za
>>
>> Internet:  https://www.blecher.co.za /
>>
>> Please consider your environmental responsibility. Before printing this
>> e-mail message, ask yourself whether you really need a hard copy.
>>
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>>
>> On 16 Oct 2019, at 21:37, Gavin Fleming <gavinjfleming at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> this time, Umungundlovu DM not even trying to hide names.
>>
>> Government entities are not allowed to simply renew contracts like these ELAs. They have to go out to *open* tender to test the market for alternative solutions and lower prices.
>>
>> http://www.umdm.gov.za/Official_Site/index.php/quotations/req02148-2019-supply-enviromental-systems-research-institute-esri-licensing-maintenance-renewal-from-november-2019-to-november-2020/download
>>
>> Now how many firms can compete for this one?
>>
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