[OSGeo-Board] FW: shirt logos

[Dave McIlhagga]

If by not doing our due diligence on this -- do we not risk third 
parties preventing us from our own freedom to use our own logos and wording?

Also - if OSGeo is being misrepresented by a third party - is that OK? 
Are we comfortable with allowing anybody to use OSGeo in any context 
they desire? By having adequate legal protection, we at least reserve 
the right to take action *if* a real problem should come up.

I don't have the answers to these questions as I'm not a lawyer -- but 
that's why I think taking legal opinion seriously on this is important.

If Trademark registration gives us the freedom to behave in the way we 
want to as an organization, is that not a good thing?

Dave



Arnulf Christl wrote:
> On Tue, July 25, 2006 15:05, Dave McIlhagga wrote:
>> Agreed with Frank - if we can get protection of "OSGeo" and "Open Source
>> Geospatial Foundation" - that would be sensible.
>>
>> Dave
> 
> Against whom or what do we need any protection? What kind of protection
> are we really going to get?
> 
> ...
> Using the "TM" lets the world know that the organization considers its
> marks to be proprietary
> ...
> 
> Oh, funny that this word comes up here. :-) No the word is not bad. But we
> do not need a small letter to tell the world that we really mean it.
> 
> ...
> and allows the organization to start to develop some goodwill in the marks.
> ...
> 
> Bear with me doing some 'lost in translation yoga' on 'goodwill'. Using
> dict.leo.org it translates into 'Firmenwert' (company value [comm.]),
> 'Kulanz' (amiability, fairness, goodwill, kindness, obligingness, fair
> dealing [econ.]) or 'Wohlwollen' (benevolence, courtesy, friendliness).
> 
> What kind of goodwill is protection by a tiny superior letter (thats
> something like a tiny virago) going to give us?
> 
> ...
> Eventually, if OSGEO obtains a registration for its marks, then you'll
> switch to using an "(R)" in superscript.
> ...
> 
> If you really want to know before switching - and as board member and
> voter you should very much feel obliged to - then read through this page:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_trademark
> In my opinion there are way too many backlinks to copyright, legal
> enforcement, commercial property ownership and licensing to make me like
> any of it in the context of OSGeo. We are not aiming at being yet another
> traditional company, we are a foundation.
> 
> ...
> Very rough estimate of the fees to file one trademark in the U.S.
> (including attorney time to prepare the application) are: $1100-1500.
> This is just to file the application. Occasionally with some trademark
> applications, you have problems with the trademark office objecting to
> the mark or a third party opposing the application. If this happens,
> additional fees will apply.  Based on what I've seen so far, I don't
> have any reason to believe that a third party would oppose "OSGEO" or
> the "OPEN SOURCE GEOPSPATIAL FOUNDATION" (our informal Google searches
> came up very clean) but that is difficult to know in advance.
> ...
> 
> OK, so the registration valid for the US only would cost us 1500 bucks
> (while we are shy of 300 to pay for lousy shirts...). To get some real
> 'protection' we'd need to register with more countries. Real costs only
> start when someone somebody actually really starts bugging us by stealing
> logo or words. The 'protection' by registering the trademark does not give
> us anything beyond a theoretical right that has to be enforced by someone
> who will cost us the real money.
> 
> Even without any (R)s we have quite a fair chance of being protected:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_trademark#Enforcing_trademark_rights
> 
> Having said all this bear in mind that I am a bloody layman. I am not
> saying that anything that Jennifer Daehler said is not legally completely
> correct and makes all the sense from the perspective of a large and
> well-fortified corporation. I am not saying either that it would not be
> perfectly legally correct to do it. It might even feel like common sense
> to do it. I do question whether this kind of sense is what we need to
> protect OSGeo.org.
> 
> Therefore I vote -1 on TM or (C) or (R) superscript in the logo or on the
> web page. If you like those superior letters then in Borgs name put an
> (O)pen there or a (F)ree or a (L)eft.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> (still on vacation until 2006.08.04)
> 
>> Frank Warmerdam wrote:
>>> Gary Lang wrote:
>>>> Let's take up your suggestion.
>>>> Board: do we want to do this?
>>>> +1 from me
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> I'm +1 on using the (tm) with OSGeo.   If we have board support on the
>>> idea, I'll take it up with WebCom to update the web site to use it.
>>>
>>>> On the issue of registration: if the organization would like to pursue
>>>> it and funds permitting, my suggestion would be to register the word
>>>> mark "OSGEO" and (again, funds/desire permitting) the word mark "OPEN
>>>> SOURCE GEOSPATIAL FOUNDATION".  I'm less concerned about a logo
>>>> registration, especially to the extent that OSGEO or OPEN SOURCE
>>>> GEOSPATIAL FOUNDATION are an element of the logo -- I'd recommend just
>>>> continuing to designate the logo with a "TM" in superscript.
>>> My understanding was that "Open Source Geospatial Foundation" is
>>> descriptive
>>> and so would be difficult to protect as a trademark.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
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