[Board] Re: [OSGeo-Conf] "OSGeo Teach-in

Mon Jun 9 19:52:08 PDT 2008

I think that depends a good deal on the presenters. My personal
experience is that preparing the materials is the difficult part
(hence my lack of enthusiasm to simply give them away once they are
done) but that once they are in hand, presenting them again and again
becomes much easier, and hence the price can go down much more
readily.  From that PoV, paying the presenters a reasonable stipend
for the Teach-in will help to build a pool of competed materials, some
of which will end up being online (see, for example, my introductory
PostGIS course, the single most downloaded thing from the FOSS4G 2007
web site) and some of which will at least be in the holsters of the
trainers to present without needing to recoup weeks of preparation
time.

P.

On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 7:45 PM, Bob Bruce <Bob.Bruce at pobox.com> wrote:
> Having attended two OSGeo conferences and two of the predecessors, I'd like
> to offer my thoughts on this.
>
> I've always appreciated the opportunities to attend the conference workshops
> in the past and have found them to be reasonably priced. I would hope that
> the conference committee would retain the control of the pricing and price
> the 'Teach-ins' comparable to an all-day workshop. This would be so that the
> Teach-in would not discourage people from offering workshops. My concern is
> that once people realize that someone can earn significant revenues from a
> Teach-in then people would not volunteer their time for workshops anymore.
> The workshops complement the conferences very well and we wouldn't want them
> to be discontinued.
>
>        Bob Bruce
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: conference_dev-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
> [mailto:conference_dev-bounces at lists.osgeo.org]On Behalf Of Paul Ramsey
> Sent: 9-Jun-08 7:38 PM
> To: Cameron Shorter
> Cc: conference_dev; OSGeo-Board
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Conf] "OSGeo Teach-in
>
>
> Markus has made some notes:
>
> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Conference_Policy
>
> But they are still some way from a policy.
>
> P
>
> On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 4:10 PM, Cameron Shorter
> <cameron.shorter at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Paul,
>> Having the conference committee draft a proposal is an appropriate forum.
>> Has anyone volunteered or started on this yet?
>>
>> PS, I should note that my ethical arguments very conveniently align with
> my
>> commercial interests as LISAsoft would likely be able to present Open
>> Content training sessions.
>>
>> Paul Ramsey wrote:
>>>
>>> The board has already made a decision: to ask the conference committee
>>> to develop a policy. Unless or until the conference committee delivers
>>> a draft policy back to the board, there won't be any further
>>> decisions, I imagine.
>>>
>>> I'm not going to make an effort to publicize a spat over an event, I
>>> would much rather spend my credibility budget publicizing the event
>>> itself, once I know exactly what it is going to be called, where it
>>> will be and when it will be.
>>>
>>> If you are wondering what kind of reception it will get, note that the
>>> two variants of response so far have been:
>>>
>>> "That's a great idea!" and
>>> "That's a great idea, but I have philosophical objections!"
>>>
>>> Everyone has a different philosophical objection, so I have reconciled
>>> myself that I am not going to be able to meet everyone's bottom line.
>>> Jo and Markus want something European. Arnulf wants nothing commercial
>>> under the OSGeo banner. You want creative commons materials. Someone
>>> else wants student scholarships.
>>>
>>> I, however, don't want to please everyone, just the 300 people who
>>> come to the event, who I want to experience well-developed material,
>>> in a professional setting, from the properly compensated people who
>>> know the topic, and send them home thinking "wasn't that great!".  If
>>> OSGeo is unwilling to RECEIVE $10000 to be associated with such an
>>> event, so be it.
>>>
>>> P.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Cameron Shorter
>>> <cameron.shorter at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Paul and others on the board,
>>>>
>>>> I feel strongly about my statements in this thread and would like to see
>>>> broad community discussion before the board makes a decision. I suggest
>>>> using OSGeo-Discuss or your blog. I would like to blog on the topic but
>>>> it
>>>> would be inappropriate of me to do so without first giving Paul the
>>>> option
>>>> to announce his training session and start the thread.
>>>>
>>>> Paul, if you plan to pursue a proprietary model for presentation
> content,
>>>> could you please make a broader announcement about your ideas.
>>>>
>>>> Cameron Shorter wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul, I want to preface my email by noting that I'm very hopeful that
>>>>> you
>>>>> are able to build a successful "Teach In" conference series and that it
>>>>> is
>>>>> very lucrative for you. Where possible, I want to help make it happen
>>>>> for
>>>>> you, and ensure the OSGeo community maximises the value offered at the
>>>>> same
>>>>> time.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is nothing wrong with using a proprietary business model for your
>>>>> conferences. You put in the effort building the content, you have every
>>>>> right to sell it.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, I feel that OSGeo would be selling out on its principles if it
>>>>> were to actively support a proprietary business model. In particular, a
>>>>> proprietary tutorials program will likely undermine the effectiveness
> of
>>>>> OSGeo's education program as potential sponsors of the education
> program
>>>>> turn to the proprietary material, and contributors produce proprietary
>>>>> content instead of open content.
>>>>>
>>>>> Open Source has a very effective community marketing value which I
>>>>> understand you want to tap into, but I feel you need to make a choice.
>>>>> Either:
>>>>> 1. Go open, and make use of the OSGeo brand, or
>>>>> 2. Go proprietary, and build your own brand.
>>>>>
>>>>> (A side note, I wouldn't under estimate your personal "rock star"
>>>>> drawing
>>>>> appeal).
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul Ramsey wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 3:16 PM, Cameron Shorter
>>>>>> <cameron.shorter at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * The proposal is missing one of the key elements of the Open Source
>>>>>>> Business model. Ie, all material used for the "teach in" should be
>>>>>>> provided
>>>>>>> for free under an open license. Conference organisors can sell their
>>>>>>> services (as presenters).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You go first. I'm not giving away 4 hours of workshop materials for
>>>>>> $3K. I'm not a rock star, I hold no illusions that people are coming
>>>>>> to the workshop to see *me*. The Open Source business model is that
>>>>>> the *source* is open, and something else is not
>>>>>> (http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/magic-cauldron/).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> P.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Cameron Shorter
>>>> Geospatial Systems Architect
>>>> Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
>>>> Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254
>>>>
>>>> Think Globally, Fix Locally
>>>> Commercial Support for Geospatial Open Source Solutions
>>>> http://www.lisasoft.com/LISAsoft/SupportedProducts.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cameron Shorter
>> Geospatial Systems Architect
>> Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
>> Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254
>>
>> Think Globally, Fix Locally
>> Commercial Support for Geospatial Open Source Solutions
>> http://www.lisasoft.com/LISAsoft/SupportedProducts.html
>>
>>
>>
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